CAMPBELL34 VS. LIBERTINE :The War To Settle The Score...

aka: Try to prove that there is a God without using the Bible.

All we want to see is that you debate validity of the Bible. Honestly, I do not see what the problem is since you bash it all the time.

 

You know the army ~ the one that's coral encrusted in campbell34's head!!
Another famous lie from the famous liar!

 

campbell34 is a manipulator. Manipulators will never, repeat NEVER, answer the question at hand. Rather, they invariably make outrageous and unsubstantiatable claims, then attempt to manipulate the context of the argument to fit such claims. This invariably results in obfuscation of the aims of the debate, as well as ephemeralizing the content, exactly as he has done in every discussion/debate to date, as well as this one.
Libertine is correct in demanding that the first question be answered in order for the debate to be open and honest. campbell34, on the other hand, wants anything but, and is following a typically manipulative obfuscation pattern.
The debate, in my mind, is won by Libertine by default.

 

http://www.exchangedlife.com/wyatt/redsea.html
http://www.bibleplus.org/discoveries/redsea.htm

 

I did answer Libertines first question. Does God exist, which I stated He does. The second part of the question was, "why do I believe in God?" I tried to explain why, and was then told I could not speak of my personal experience with God, which prevented me from answering the question." And that was the beginning of Libertins CENSORSHIP.

AND JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, LIARS USUALLY DO NOT SUPPLY EVIDENCE, BUT LIARS OFTEN WILL IGNORE IT. HERES SOME MORE EVIDENCE ABOUT THE DISCOVERY OF PHAROAHS LOST ARMY, YOU MIGHT CONSIDER IT. AND MY CLAIMS ARE NOT OUTRAGEOUS, OR UNSUBSTANTIATABLE. I HAVE LAID THIS EVIDENCE AT YOUR FEET BEFORE. WHAT IS OUTRAGEOUS, IS YOUR APPERENT SHORT TERM MEMORY.

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/redsea.html
http://english.sdaglobal.org/evangelism/arch/redsea.htm
http://www.bibleprobe.com/exodus.htm
http://www.bibleplus.org/discoveries/redsea.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/8830/exodus.html?200518

 

Funny every single one of those links are interesting, "Christian" websites.

1-The first one is ensignmessage.com which is one of those websites that claims that the "true Israelites" are Anglo-Saxon White People. You know the old "Kingdom Identity" fringe cult group used by the Ku Klux Klan and various other "Christian" organizations.

The evidence at this site says that nothing of the sort has been found anywhere but the Red Sea (without corroboration, of course). However, they fail to note that the original text really states the "Sea of Reeds" which some scholars believe to be a different area than the "Red Sea". Either way, there is no corroborating evidence that this wagon wheel is any evidence at all of either the "Red Sea crossing" or Omni-Max Sky Man. It is yet another gap filled by the wanton "faith" of Christians.

2- The second site is another Christian website which tells the same basic story with the famous archaeologist RON WYATT who has been criticized by both Christians and secularists for his "evidences". This nut claims he discovered this, Noah's Ark, and even the Ark of The Covenant. Damn, Indiana! Where are thine evidences?

These people are no different than the UFO nuts who toss a hubcap in the air, flash a photo and say "There is my evidence!" I am sorry, but it seems, so far, only CHRISTIAN websites and mostly fringe cult-nuts are the ones flashing this around as "EVIDENCE". Which it's not.

3- A basic repeat of site #2. Same guy. Same "evidence". An extra pic.

4- A creationist, evangelical website. No wagon wheel photo. A lot of others with some guy pointing a lot. Again, no legitimate proof rather than someone's words and a lot of that.

5- This site seemed by fairly sensible after admitting several inconsistencies in the Scripture, but using more "may be" and "may have been" apologetics to glue it back. However, we are back to good ol' Ronnie Wyatt again...same photo.

Let us examine a little about RON WYATT- the "they" that campbell is always referring to when he says "they found" , shall we?

This man has made some incredible claims of significant archaeological discovery. Here are some of his claims:

- Currently he claims to have found the blood of Christ and that DNA analysis indicates that Christ was born of a virgin.

- He claims he discovered, for certain, Noah's Ark.

- He claims he found the Ark of the Covenant under the exact spot where Jesus was crucified. He found the stone socket in which the cross of Christ was placed. When pierced by the sword, Ron believes the blood dripped down into the socket and dripped through a crack caused by the earthquake and landed on the mercy seat 60 feet down in a subterranean chamber.


- He has also found the mountain that is the biblical Mt. Sinai where God dispensed the law to His people. This mountain is located in Saudi Arabia (Jabal Al Lawz), and is strangely enough, one of the legendary places for the mountain. Dr. Frank Cross of Harvard thinks it is a good candidate, but admits that there is as of now no evidence to confirm it.

- Ron believes he has located the 12 altars build by Moses in Exodus 24. This strains credulity again since Moses built these in one day and the rocks were not to be handhewn. How could they possibly be recognizable today? Ron is undaunted.


- Ron also knows exactly where the Israelites crossed the Red Sea and has even located chariot parts from Pharaoh's army. He claims he found a chariot wheel one and a half miles out in the Gulf of Aqaba and in two hundred feet of water! Professional skin divers say this would be quite a feat to dive that far down and impossible to photograph without sophisticated lighting equipment.

- Ron claims that he has solved the problem of the construction of the pyramids, and the problems in Egyptian chronology. Indeed, he has even constructed a working model of the machine he believes the Egyptians used to build the pyramids. It is indeed an interesting looking device!

- Ron knows how the Shroud of Turin was forged; he has cracked the code of the Copper Scroll; in fact he has claimed to mutual acquaintances that he can read any ancient inscription.


All this, yet poor Ron, hasn't a shred of legitimate evidence and there has been no corroboration from any secular archaeologist that I could find, and even some Christians wince at his spectacular claims.

Is Ron Wyatt the greatest archaeologist to ever live? Or is there a better explanation? Check out THIS link from a FELLOW "CHRISTIAN" on ol' Ron.

http://www.fni.com/cim/reports/wyatt.txt

 

No matter what we find, you can always say "oh, that's unreliable"

-----------------

And we're not debating who the "True israelites" were.

And perhaps Ron Wyatt may be wrong about everything else, but right about this?

And perhaps the wheel photos aren't fake.

And perhaps we're not all insane.

 

Ron also claims to have found blood on the ark of the covenant, tested it, verified it was christ's blood and that he was born of a virgin.

This guy is a nutcase (or a manipulator who takes advantage of trusting christians), and this guy is whom campbell bases all his "archeological proof" of god's existance.

Any "christian" who spread's Wyatt's lies should be ashamed of himself. Taking advantage of people's trusting nature just to get them into your religion is pathetic.

 

SERA, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS TELLING A LIE ABOUT ME. YOU HAVE JUST STATED THAT CAMPBELL BASES ALL HIS ARCHEOLOGICAL PROOF ON WYATT'S CLAIMS. AND THEN YOU INFER THAT WYATT IS A LIAR. I REALLY THINK YOU HAVE SHORT TERM MEMORY LOSS. I HAVE POINTED OUT OTHER NAMES TO YOU IN OTHER POSTS, WHICH CONFIRMS WYATT'S DISCOVERIES. I BASE WHAT I BELIEVE ON CONFIRMATION OF WYATT'S CLAIMS, BY DR. LENNART MOLLER PROFESSOR AT KAROLINSKA INSTITUTE IN STOCKHOLM, COLIN J. HUMPHREYS OF CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY, LECTURER AND AUTHOR OF THE BOOK, RIDDLE OF THE EXODUS. ALSO NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC WHICH HAVE STATED THAT WYATT'S DISCOVERIES ARE REMARKABLE. PLUS THERE ARE OTHERS WHO ARE CONFIRMING HIS DISCOVERIES AS WELL. SO IN THE FUTURE, IF YOU ARE GOING TO TELL OTHERS WHAT I BELIEVE. PLEASE BE MORE ACCURATE. YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO PUT OUT FALSE INFORMATION, IF YOU ARE DEFENDING THE TRUTH.

 

Of course it does. Real truth goes against the grain. Against the flow. It's easier to follow the example of the world in all it's selfishness, than to follow Christ in His selfLESSness.

 

you lost me. And i'm not any meds. Why do you keep saying we're all high on something?


JAB JAB JAB

 

hmmm where did i start a fight? i dont understand you at all.


i said JAB JAB JAB because that is what you keep doing with all your name calling and insults.

Now i suppose you are going to ask me where you've been insulting. LOL

 

Violence (be it psychic and or physical) propagates chains of violence that tend continue to propagate unless the oftentimes difficult task of steadfast peaceful and "truly rational" example is utilized in order to bring about dissolution of violence. Why is it that heathful and wise reserve is not being utilized by the collective participants of this exchange, here in this thread ? In science folks are fooled all the time, I believe that there will be discoveries that surprize us all. Be peaceful and reserved, there are cordial and rational ways to communicate about this issue. It may be that death is in fact an altered state of consciousness, it may be that there are other means for communication to and from human beings other that what is usually referred to as the "five senses," it may be that what we see written about in the Christian Bible, and in other works, are, in part, only glimpses of these possible realities that are oft 'colored' by emotional responses to these possible experiences; be reserved; be peaceful yet continue to communicate.


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The wording in Scripture which you believe means Sea of Reeds, is the same wording used which states Solomon built his navy by the sea. So if the wording really spoke of Sea of reads, then I guess we would have to draw the conclusion, that Solomon in all his wisdom, built his might navy in two feet of water, and sailed it in the lake. Well, at least he would not have to worry about his fleet sinking.

 

That's your Bible, not my words. I really don't care either way.

Still proves NADA.

As a former Christian apologist-in-the-making, I am extremely familiar with Ron Wyatt and his remarkable tendency to discover things no one else can. He is obviously the world's greatest archaeologist who happens to be a literalist Christian, who happens to find EXACTLY what he needs to find in order to "save the Saviour" and the Bible's claims.

Ha ha ha...

Looks like my lifting of the lid from Wyatt's crackpot has upset a few people.

 

Where is PsiCop !

 

whos that?

 

I noticed that too. I have had to do it before myself, and it is no coincidence that it was in a thread Campbell was also occupying. I don't care what people put their faith in, but don't create fake evidence to make other's believe, that's just pathetic and shameful.

Christian's have even had to fight the Wyatt crowd because they make a mockery of real christian efforts to spread salvation. In fact like 99% of sources refuting Wyatt's findings are christian sources. It's an easy google if anyone doubts me.

 

i havnt seen any Christians in here insulting anyone. But i've seen just about every one of them insulted by you.

 

If wyatt's evidence is fake, why is it being verfied by scientist? Prof. Lennart Moller of Karolinska Institute of Stockholm, Prof. Colin J. Humphreys of Cambridge University, National Geographic, ect. Have been to the site, and have confirmed Wyatt's findings. I have told you this before, yet you only mention Wyatt, as if he were the only one claiming these discoveries. Most Christian sites believe what Wyatt has found, yet you point to the few that don't. What I find shameful, is how you keep talking as if it is only Wyatt that is pushing this information. The man has been dead for two or three years now. And since his death, a number of movies, books, and dvd's have been produced to show these discoveries. The only fake thing I see here, is how you forget to mention the names of all the others that are now confirming his evidence. And it's funny, you are the one who pushes science so much, but when science comes out and supports the Bible, now you go running to find the few Christian sites that might agree with you, to discredit Wyatt. Please would you stop with your half truth's, and start mentioning the others that are confirming his discoveries, even if you don't want to believe them. Just be honest about it.

http://www.detnews.com/2003/religion/0305/20/religion-134680.htm