Burn your own flag?

Exactly! Let's all go back to Africa!

 

And that justifies it how?

And how do issues of illegal immigration relate to the trend of denying opportunies for legitimate immigrants?

 

I was just referring to the statement of how America was technically founded by illiegal immigrants, if we're going to go back that far in time, almost every country is currently populated by a group that pushed out another group long in the past.

 

Very true, but.....we now have:
- A keener awareness of human rights and
- The indigenous groups still exist in substantial numbers and have not really been bred out...so essentially we still have a responsibility towards them.

Our ancestors are illegal immigrants...they forcefully occupied the lands we not live on. I think we should think about this before harbouring completely unnatural fears about legitimate immigration and multiculturalism.

Megara, what are you implying in saying that American Indians had no concept of property? (I know its true, I just don't see what it has to do with anything, that they we're inferior?)

 

diversity of culture since when? maybe the last 30 years becouse you keept that island well seal off the last couple of hundreds of years except for a few royals from france and gemany that keept the royal family from being a bunch of crazy inbreed hicks.

 

the diversity of cultures tends to be only in the cities, so i find it quite hilarious when it is the people who live in teh countryside who are complaining about loss of culture and how immigrants are ruining all.

i have lived in a city for the past 18 years, been to most schools and colleges where in many classes being white could mean you are a minority, and i had no issue because it is the norm, we are taught not to judge on colour or culture.
however, a few months ago i moved to a small coastal town for university, and i was shocked when i first arrived because of a lack of cultural diversity, and it is like this for most or rural britain, we are not as diverse as we keep claiming we are
peacex

 

I was born in Portsmouth (A city on the south coast of England), I spent 20 years in Farnborough (A town 30 miles south of London), Worked in London Bridge and Moorgate for 5 years.

Now I live in the country.

I think I can comment on diversity of culture if I wish to do so.

I'm not against immigration but I am against mass immigration.

I'm sure other nations hate the way the British have moved in on their culture and destroyed it. For example Tenerife and Ibiza. I'm sure the Spanish love us over there turning their small tropical islands into beer guzzling, roudy, drug fuelled party zones.

Mass immigration has to have an affect on culture. I'm not against new cultures being brought in to the UK and it is great we do have such diversity.

Saying the country folk are all anti-immigration and no nothing about diversity of culture is very smallminded.

 

uh, do you just always go to the most extreme answer?

We're talking about property...they have no concept of ownership....so yep, i'm saying they're inferior. Of course i'm not saying that if they have no concept of ownership that something cant be stolen, because it is not theirs to be stolen.

Heck, many of the tribes in the praries were nomadic and moved around, surely they couldnt have 'their land' stolen, because it was never 'their land.'

 

did i use you in an example?? i believe i didn't so please do not presume anything. i do happen to disagree with a lot of things you say on here, but i wasn't referring to you at all.

i have been surrounded by mass immigration most of my life, i have been brought up in Birmingham and spent a lot of my childhood in London, as my Auntie and uncle were in the West End. i have never seen the amount of problems people talk of. i love Birmingham, i love it because people most of the time live at peace with one another, not forcing their culture on others, and i absolutely love that.

next time, try not to presume anything of what i say without asking.
peacex

 

We all live on stolen land, paid for with blood and the sacrifice of our ancient history... Spaniards, British, "Americans", have all done their share of murdering and looting in other countries and in our own. One of the biggest jokes is the white supremacists. I challenge any of them to prove beyond all doubt that they have NO blood of any other race or culture running in their veins! People have been travelling the globe for as long as we have a record of such and probably longer. There's been plenty of cross cultural breeding.....

As long as we can't do anything about any of this, and we all live on the Earth, and what one country does definately can have a great effect on other countries, I think that it would make more sense to have a world flag. Because if we don't start getting TOGETHER, then the whole world is going down the tubes. We need to be looking out for each other, not fighting. I'd burn ANY flag if that flag meant we had to continue to be at odds with someone else. Our survival as free willed and intelligent humans is at stake if we don't start working together. People wave flags when they are proud. I don't think at this point that any of us has all that much to be proud of. We need to take back our countries and our lives from the true terrorists who are our own governments, stop bickering over worthless details, and join forces.

 

What most people who are upset over illegal immigrants fail to recognize is that most of the jobs that illegal immigrants take are the shitty jobs that they typical white person would never want to do. Look at the majority of jobs that are "taken" by immigrants - janitors, maids, manual laborers, farm hands, etc. You complain about the illegal immigrant problem, but are you telling me that you are holding out for a position cleaning toilets?

Illegal immigrants, and legal for that matter, take the lowest paying jobs and do them with a smile on their face because they know that no matter how bad it seems, it's a hell of a lot better than in their country. Every immigrant worker that I've come across has been one of the hardest working people I've ever seen and has done it all without open complaint.

Does that mean that 100% are like that, of course not. But from my own experience of living in Seattle, Houston, and LA, I cannot in good conscience complain about them because they are doing the dirty jobs that nobody else wants. Am I saying that we should open the borders and make it a free for all - no. My opinion is that you shouldn't be upset with the immigrants for trying to make a better life for themselves. Be upset with the government for not giving the companies hiring out these jobs more incentive for keeping work in the country and giving it to citizens of that country.


"When we truly discover love, capitalism will not be possible and Marxism will not be necessary."

 

i care little for the jobs they take, i care greatly that they do not integrate.

 

No, my answer is only extreme to you because you're far right.

That is the biggest load of shit i've ever heard.

So title dictates ownership? Just when I thought you we're capable of thinking laterally. The invention of capital is the greatest achievement human kind could hope for?...tell me you're not a christian fundie who thinks monetary wealth is a God given gift.

 

If i'm far right, you must make michael moore look like george bush.

I seriously think you just make up conclusions that have no bearing on what people say, just so you can rant on about something.

 

Then what do you mean then? You said the american indians are inferior because they did not have the same concept of ownership that we do, in plain english. I didn't conclude anything, i assumed and asked...because i'm confused about your logic. You have in the past expressed that you feel the current capitalistic model is one of great superiority. I think its ok to hold western culture in high esteem, though I personally am not satisfied...what I don't understand is how people often dismiss several other forms of culture, that WORKED for people, as inferior, just because they don't score high on the modern conventional measure of what is successful. Just because a culture does not believe in money it doesn't make them inferior, it is not the be all and end all of social wellbeing...in fact i'm inclined to say that its detrimental. Also, are you basically saying that the English technically didn't do anything wrong in settling America and Australia because the native populations didn't possess the same ideas about land ownership?

If i'm misinformed about your beliefs, please explain.

By the way...I'm generally not so dotty in my arguments with other hipforums members, even the evidently insane ones. This is just an assumption, but i think the problem lies with you. As soon as I get comfortable with your moderate ideas you pick up a big pile of bullshit and chuck it...and it rouses the fuck out of me.

 

this is what i said

"uh, do you just always go to the most extreme answer?

We're talking about property...they have no concept of ownership....so yep, i'm saying they're inferior. Of course i'm not saying that if they have no concept of ownership that something cant be stolen, because it is not theirs to be stolen."

Now, the extreme answer is that i'm infering they're inferior. What i said was sarcastic in reply to you. Of course i dont think they're inferior.

I just stated something simple: they had no idea of ownership, so therefore, how could 'their land' be stolen?

You brought up the inferiority of american indians, not me.

The English, French, Americans, Dutch, etc etc all made mistakes WHILE settling America. Settling America was NOT a mistake. However, once there were settlers in America, the fate of the indians was pretty much doomed. It is silly to believe that a booming population was going to stay locked up on one small portion of a giant continent...when there are vast amounts of lands that could be used.

I'm pretty sure the problem lies with you reading something into what people write.

For example...i could say something like: "I like Pizza" And you would reply with "what do you have against china and chinese food? Why do you think its inferior? I've never seen someone so blatantly racist, you white fundie nut."

i can only sit here boggled...

 

Just think how incredibly long that list would be if you felt for pride for being a member of all mankind...

 

absolutely, well said
peacex

 

can you not have pride in both?

 

No, I don't believe that you CAN have pride in both. Having pride in your nation is part of a competition, a competition to be part of the best people on the planet. Patriotism separates an individual from feeling love and kindness toward all of humanity because it makes that individual more concerned with "winning." In the end, patriotism will make us all lose.