Brexit

My wife laughed at that and chuckling said that is the Daily Mails business model, they live off making people angry about something.

Angry about benefit scroungers, angry about loony lefties, angry about ‘political correctness gone mad’, angry about the ‘nanny state’ and above all angry about the EU.

And if they can’t find anything real to be angry about they make stuff up.

They are not alone in pumping out fake news about the EU a lot of the right wing press do the same but the Daily Mail is one of the leaders in the field

I’ve posted before about the made up or grossly misleading ‘news’ headlines in the British right wing press but here is another list for your enjoyment

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Forget about Russian meddling or US companies pushing fake and ‘dark’ news on the internet to influence the Brexit vote.

Fake news to influence the UK public to vote for Brexit has mostly come from our very own so-called professional journalists right here in the UK.

Here’s a list of fake news by the UK press over the last 20 years. Every single story here has been debunked as fake news.

It’s hard to pick just one but my personal favourites are ‘Euronotes cause impotence‘ by the Daily Mail and ‘EU puts speed limit on children’s roundabouts‘ from the always entertaining Daily Express.

See 20 years of FAKE NEWS about EU by UK press. Vote for your ‘favourite’ here:

 

Galty

Not sure what you mean by that but the point I was making was that while many leavers talk about loving Britain, but they actually seem to want to hurt because of ignorance and laziness.

Well the people that don’t vaccinating their kids putting them and other people at risk are doing so out of ignorance or because they don’t understand that they have been misled.

It seems to me from discussions here that many people want to leave are doing so out of ignorance or because they don’t understand that they have been misled.

Is that clearer for you?

I would love to discuss your point of view, but can you actually explain it in a coherent and rational way?

 

I just had the most horrible thought:

I was sitting on a long haul flight to Australia with no other seats available sitting next to Balbus interrogating me about Brexit.

I would much sooner have me nuts roasted over a blow lamp!

 

Booze

Sorry mate that doesn’t really work – I mean this is a public debating forum it’s not like you have to be here and you didn’t have to come here to spout misinformation and lies.

You are roasting your own nuts

Yes you don’t like been pulled up about how your crap views doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, how you seem to be so ill informed about so much and your inability to address the many outstanding criticisms of your views.

But i will keep doing it as long as you keep pushing bad ideas.

And I love you been here because you encapsulate just how bad the Brexit argument is but it’s not like I’m forcing you to be here just as I can’t force you to debate honestly.

LOL - Honestly I think your views on leaving are as silly as you purposely roasting your nuts in public.

 

[QUOTE

It has also been pointed out that that it was never meant to be just a trading agreement (post 798)
[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah you understood that at twelve ? From the EUs own website !

What began as a purely economic union has evolved into an organization spanning policy areas, from climate, environment and health to external relations and security, justice and migration. A name change from the European Economic Community (EEC) to the European Union (EU) in 1993 reflected this.

 

so you're saying to maintain sovereignty, one would remove oneself from the agenda of the larger entity?

 

What I am saying is that Balbus Lied to try to prove a point !
The other shit I have no idea about But I feel we are being lied to regularly Myself I didn't care if we left or not but now I am beginning to see a Media led conspiracy to take away from the people that which they had thought they had won !

How would you feel about that ?

 

1. 'What I am saying is that Balbus Lied to try to prove a point' !

Agreed and not for the first time by any means.

2. 'How would you feel about that' ?

Now that's what I call a flipping good question!

 

Mally, were I in your shoes I would be really angry that people voted us out, not the other way. But that is because I'm subscribed to a sense of security in unions such as the EU or like the UN and stuff. I would be very upset, mate! I do understand your feelings though, and so I will leave you be. Good luck!

 

I didn't vote out unfortunately but I will if ever I get the chance to ! What do you know about what is happening in the UK to tell me what I should feel about it ?
Not trying to fall out with you about this but you know fuck all aout whats going on here !!
Have you ever heard me comment about US politics ?

as I said we are cool !

 

I've seen London; teaming with foreigners. I've been to a bus terminal crowded with tourists. And I don't claim to know much. But from that I know that locals in Britain likely feel a bit stifled by the hullabaloo. If I lived there, I would feel like something must be done about it if I were a young independent thinker trying to make a name for myself. But I'm no urbanite. I live in a more subdued area in California where there are no bus terminals. Decidedly, you're right. I don't know much in this, but I'll tell you something: what the EU stands for; its mission statement and all that, is a lot more promising than that nationalist stuff the other side are trying to make you believe. That's my thought, and now I'll let it be what it is...

 

London is nothing to do with what the rest of the UK wants !

 

Teeming with foreigners is a vast understatement Soul.
My Wife is a Londoner and she regularly goes down to Londonstan to visit her family.
I avoid going down with her like the plague, but I have and will go with her in an emergency.
It's like this...

We get off the train at Euston and piling off the train into the melee the first thing that springs to mind is:
Where am I?
We get out of the station into the high rise concrete and the low life beggers and drunks and go for the bus to my Mother In Laws home.

Then we go to the shops in Lewisham and elsewhere and:
I think:
What bastard country am I in?
I could go on but I fink you get me drift.
The British culture both in Londonstan and many other towns across the country has changed beyond recognition with this bastard let them all in immigration policy, mainly brought about by Blair and his shower of gobshites.
I could go on.
But I have to watch my blood pressure!

 

You seem to be in a diverse country that welcomes people from all over the world.

Not a bad thing

 

We are indeed a very diverse country Maliai, and that is very good up to a point.
Please note that I am NOT a racist.
My best ever friend is an Asian guy, and my two step children their Father was from the West Indies, so are black.
But it is all very well saying welcome one and all, but we have an NHS system which is close to collapse.
Our Schools are overflowing and full.
There is a severe housing shortage.
Our main roads and motorways are jammed, and all our basic Social Services are at breaking point as seen by hundreds and thousands of people using food banks.

The UK is FULL.

And we really cannot cope with just allowing immigrants to come here and take up the scarce housing and the rest, while far too many of our youth cannot get jobs either.

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Most food bank users reported that they were unable to afford to buy sufficient food, as well as finding it difficult to pay the rent, heat their home or buy clothes and toiletries. This should be regarded as a “serious health concern”, the report says.

“These findings serve to reinforce what we already know: poverty and hunger are real in the UK today,” said David McAuley, chief executive of the Trussell Trust food bank network, which commissioned the research.

It found that people with a disability or chronic illness who were in receipt of benefits were disproportionately likely to be referred to food banks, as were lone parents and poorer families with three or more children.

“These are the same groups that have been – and continue to be – hit hardest by welfare reform, such as loss of disability entitlements, increased conditionality and sanctions, the benefit cap, and reductions in tax credits. Our observation that these groups are disproportionately needing help from food banks is unlikely to be coincidence,” the report’s lead author, Rachel Loopstra, told the Guardian.

The Trussell Trust operates 1,390 food banks out of its 420 food bank centres across the UK. In 2016-17 it provided 1.2m food parcels to clients, 440,000 of which went to households with children. There are at least 680 more non-Trussell food banks operating in the UK.

Nearly 80% of food bank users suffered from severe and chronic food insecurity, with potentially serious consequences for their health and wellbeing, the report says. They were likely to be vulnerable to malnutrition and nutritional deficiency, and might struggle to manage conditions such as diabetes.

It says disabled and ill claimants of employment and support allowance

 

Thank you Booze it's refreshing to see someone speak sensibly about stark realities rather than spew the same old dribble we hear coming from Brussels and their lemmings.
According to them it's always Kumbaya time in the EU.

Unfortunately for average people the bureaucrats who make all the decisions and gaze over their champagne glasses at the rest of us live in gated and secured communities away from all the problems and suffering their decisions have created.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply boozer

So I've been following this thread with interest but haven't really wanted to say anything because I'm in the US and it really has nothing to do with me.

But some things are universal. You're citing immigration and the strain it places on social programs as a reason for wanting to leave the EU. Mally cited free trade and the effects of globalization earlier in the thread. These are things I can relate to, there are a lot of parallels in my own country with the rise of right wing populism and the election of you know who ...this is all fueled by the deleterious effects of free trade and the blame for that unfairly being placed on the backs of immigrants

I think in my country when immigrants are scapegoated, the people doing the scapegoating so often dont really have the entire picture. And reading through your post I wonder if that's true here too. From everything I've read over the years, the NHS is failing due to politicians who want to defund it in order to move towards a privatized system like we have in the US. And aren't these right leaning politicians the same who have been pushing for Brexit?

Immigrants pay taxes, even if they dont work. (although I think the idea of the immigrant who doesn't work and lives off welfare is largely a myth, immigrants are some of the hardest working people around from what I've seen). People like to pretend they dont pay taxes but they do. So the tax base for social services is still there even with a large immigrant population. The source problem with funding social services almost always lies with the politicians in charge of allocating those funds rather than those paying into and using those services, from what I've seen in my life

You seem to be in favor of a robust social safety net. I am too. But it seems to me that the push to privatize everything in the UK coexists with the push for Brexit. Dont you worry you'll see a lot of those programs go away when Britian leaves the EU?

 

well, that's exactly what i would say... "he obviously is, how the hell can't you see it?" haha. but there we go.
the insanely weird world of human perceptions.

 

Thank you for your kind words there nA.
What you say there I couldn't agree more, but of course this also applies to pretty much all of our MPs nowadays.
Career politicians the vast majority are who don't know what it is like to live out here in the real world.

I despise them because even though the UK population majority voted to to LEAVE the EU, around 75% of them are remainers, so have been wrecking our chances of leaving the EU so we can easily trade with the rest of the world.
This includes America who have said that they will give us a very good trading deal indeed once we are free of the EU shackles.

I voted for the newly formed Brexit Party.
If Boris Johnston will not get us out of the crippling EU.
Then Nigel Farage will!

 

Thank you for your very thoughtful reply there Melai.
At the moment I have not got the time to give justice in responding to your post.
But I can tell you this.

I believe that generally speaking privatisation is a good thing, though not for the NHS and similar.
The Labour party here would Nationalise everything in sight if they could, but Nationalisation never works along with the so called socialism it is all encompassing.

All Labour ever did when in power was to spend and spend and spend.
This got the country heavily in debt and caused all kinds of problems, and this is why they got voted out.

Allowed back into government and they will only wreck the country.
Again!