ok... didn't express myself well there... "libel" probably isn't the best word to use. Anyway, I'm all for free speech. They have a right to print those pictures, and they can reprint them if they like. The point I'm arguing is that it's not like the Jerry Springer thing, and that people have a right to be outraged. Free speech doesn't mean speech without consequences or criticism.
Oh yeah, jonny, people have as much a right to say "I want to kill you" as print anti-muslim propaganda
what was unhelpful and off-topic? lithium I just responded to stoney whatever I say hes says you are full of hate yada yada yada its getting tiresome but people do their stuff I suppose . the pictures were on topic as they happened over the recent cartoon thing people have as much a right to say "I want to kill you" as print anti-muslim propaganda I dont think they do as one is incitement to murder, the other is criticism of religion
I can see theres a difference as you have intent , do you think those guys with the placards wouldnt kill lets say a cartoonist . Im not sure what you want to say . personally I think they would kill someone and its not just rhetoric , I cant see why they were not arrested but there again they didnt do anything to the people who called for rushdies death . Ive been caught up in one of those sort of demos this was during the rushdie affair and they have lots of hatred
yeah everybody ALWAYS does what they do what they say they want to do... Most of these people wouldn't, let's face it. Some of them would. Ok. Let's face that. But why are you defending Jyllands Posten's actions, just because of the reactions they got?
why Im defending Jyllands Posten's is if you dont eventually you will have the sort of censorship you have in the middle east . I think most of them would, if you have people ready to blow themselves up to kill people who havnt really done that much to offend them , I think you would be wrong to think people wouldnt kill someone who as they saw it insulted mohammed. Im pretty sure if rushdie had turned up to a anti rushdie demo he would have been torn apart . and you have to remember we have thousands of people in the uk who have gone to afghanistan for jihadi training this is a link to the book that set the whole thing off http://www.exilen.org/debatt/read.php?f=17&i=195024&t=195024
I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but those placards speak for themselves. I can understand muslims being angry and offended by the Mohammad cartoons, but we haven't published them here yet they want to do harm to us. A Danish man creates them yet they're protesting in London. When are people going to wake up and realize that Muslims fanatics are not like us and the stronger they get in numbers the more harm they will do to us. I have heard countless Muslim fanatics talk how they want the world to be a one Muslim nation and they will stop at nothing to get what they want. I predict that one day soon, when they're strong enough they will storm Europe in what will be WW3 and completely take over and we'll all be repressed for the rest of our lives. Maybe I'm being a bit over dramatic but we are too tolerant towards them and they are taking advantage and taking liberties, what they have said in those placards is disgusting and on our own soil too. Churchill wouldn't have tolerated it and neither should we. They talk about us being dirty and sinful but they wouldn't dream of going home, they don't like the way we conduct ourselves yet they continue living here and working here and taking our handouts, I'm sorry if I sound like Alf Garnett but I'm sick of walking on eggshells to please the biggest bunch of hypocrites I've ever layed my eyes on. I know what these people are like and I don't know about the rest of you but those placards and burning of flags spell war to me.
It's perfectly obvious that the newspapers concerned had every right to publish what they did simply in the normal expression of free speech. What a storm in a teacup Moving along, the reaction of the rentamob minorities of muslim protestors really is quite counterproductive, don't you think?
I think its doing what its intended to . it goes like this you have one bunch of muslims attacking people, and you have another bunch saying islam is peace, the islam is peace bunch stop moves against the wider islamic community which is growing in numbers all the time the people doing the attacks inspire terror in critics of islam or people who could oppose the aim which is taking over the country . its a sort of good cop bad cop , basically this cartoon row will blow over but another will pop up and gradually the years will pass and gradually we will be more influenced by islam . whether the rentamob was counterproductive or not will depend on how many cartoons of mohammed we get , or if we do things that would stop the aim of a islamic uk in the future . the best people who understand this are ex-muslims http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/Perfanalyst/creating_an_islamic_state.htm
Free speech doesn't mean speech without having to answer for what you say. You can't do what you want and expect to get away with it. Criticism, people reacting, and overreacting, is a part of it.
Also, why is this all boiling down to extreme muslim reaction? What about the less extreme muslims, the christians, atheists, and all the rest who are shocked that a paper printed this kind of thing? It's not just about the crazy fundamentalists who want to kill everyone. You're trying to make it too simple.
Free speech doesn't mean speech without having to answer for what you say yes it does free speech means you can say what you like without being beat up or killed . we have some curbs on free speech but we have no law to stop people drawing religious figures I have on top of my computer a 15th or 16th century book called the history of the popes its still on a list of banned books from the vatican . the man who wrote it was a jesuit who had to go into hiding and flee I think to scotland ,anyway if I had that book a few hundred years ago they would jailed me or killed me . and now we are getting the same crap with islam, and it annoys me
If that does happen, which I'm sure it will, then it's because we've lost our pride. How can they come over to our country and tell us how to live our lives. Like I say if Churchill was still in charge or even to a lesser extent Thatcher we wouldn't be having this debate. Does anyone really think that Muslims would be tolerated marching through the streets of New York burning national flags and threatening violence and terror attacks against their innocent citizens, of course not, because we're a soft touch under Labour. We look a laughing stock. The way things are going we'll be more and more influenced by islam, till we are just as oppressed and controlled as they are in the middle east. I'm not BNP, or a white supremesist or anything like that, but I am patriotic and have pride in where I'm from and what I believe in. And so should everybody else, I don't like the thought of living under Islamic rule which is exactly what's going to happen if we give these people an inch. They take liberties and advantage of our hospitality.
And by the way Muslims don't believe in free speech, they believe in controlling people and oppression so of course they are going to burn our flags for what this Danish man has created.
I'm glad you're getting annoyed because I've been annoyed since 9/11. It's about time we get angry about this, cause diplomatically we're getting no where. These people can't be reasoned with, hence all the terror attacks and the blowout from this, so it's about time we stood up to them. We all need to be angry, then maybe we'll get somewhere and avoid a disastrous future under Islamic rule.
People don't see the big picture. It is not about religion, but about respect and tolerance. If everyone: Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Boedhist, Jews, Atheïsts, ... would have respect for each other thoughts, then there wouldn't be wars about who knows the truth. God & spiritual development are the most beautiful things I've ever experienced. But I cannot support an organisation who excludes people because of their beliefs. When the message of love and unity is altered by conservative narrow-minded people to "us against them", it is poison for the mind. That is the reason I quit Christianity a couple of years ago. Does that mean I am bad now? No, it just means I don't want to be a part of a mind-altering institution. I do try to respect everyone. There are many people like me, from all religions, and there are angry frustrated people, who become famous as fanatics because in their sorrow they want revenge. As long as people blame each other for the bullshit in this world, it won't change that much. The only thing we can do, is try to live your live with respect for all other people. I'm not a native English speaker, so keep in mind if you read something that doesn't make sense
Muslims don't believe in free speech. I can accept this statement on one condition: you need to say that the whole western world, (and I guess most of the eastern world, at least China), doesn't believe in free speech, and that they believe in controlling people. Remember the guy from fahrenheit 9/11 who was interrogated by the CIA because he told a friend he didn't like the war in Iraq. He did nothing wrong by making this statement, but the CIA was afraid of him. If most of the people would think like this man, the American gouvernment wouldn't be able to control the people anymore. If everyone thinks the war is justified, then Bush & Co can do what they want. I was talking about this yesterday with a friend, and we both think that most of the people still don't realise how many rules and laws have been broken for the "good cause" OK, that's it, I'm getting a little upset. Time to chill. Greetings & a bunch of love to ya all, Tommy
You can't say that the whole western world doesn't believe in freedom of speech, over just one tiny incident. Muslims are known to repress their people and believe in oppression, apart from that you have some good points. With love and respect.
