Bible Questions?

The "Law" we were talking about is the Mosaic Law, what does not include the Commandments that Jesus gave us and Christians are not above the Mosaic Law, it just doesn't apply to Christians.

And if it's not an inconsistency, then yes, you can defend by saying it's not an inconsistency.

 

(2 Timothy 3:16) 16 All Scripture is inspired of God . . .
And so, Paul's writings are not is not his own.

 

Seems to work for you.

 

Here are some thoughts I found on the subject.

The inspired description of wisdom found in the book of Proverbs reads: “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. . . . Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains . . . When he prepared the heavens I was there; . . . then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, . . . and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.”

This passage cannot be speaking merely about divine wisdom or wisdom in the abstract. Why not? Because the wisdom that is here described was “produced,” or created, as the beginning of Jehovah’s way. Jehovah God has always existed and has always been wise. (Psalm 90:1, 2) His wisdom had no beginning; it was neither created nor produced. It was not “brought forth as with labor pains.” Furthermore, this wisdom is said to speak and act, representing a person.—Proverbs 8:1.

The book of Proverbs says that long ago wisdom was beside Jehovah, the Creator, as “a master worker.” That certainly applies to Jesus. Long before he came to earth, Jesus worked so closely with Jehovah that God’s Word says: “He is before all other things and by means of him all other things were made to exist.”—Colossians 1:17; Revelation 3:14.

Depicting the Son of God as wisdom is appropriate, since he was the One who revealed Jehovah’s wise purposes and decrees. During his prehuman existence, Jesus was God’s Word, or Spokesman. (John 1:1) He is described as being “the power of God and the wisdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 1:24, 30) What a beautiful description of the Son of God, whose fondness for mankind moved him to give his life as a ransom in their behalf!—John 3:16.

 

Did I say you were asking me.

God is totally omniscient, just as he is omnipotent. God able to use his abilities to accomplish the task at hand. God did not use all his power to create a delicate flower, does that mean he is no longer omnipotent, no. So does not using all his omniscience so we can have free will mean that God no longer has the ability to be omniscient, no.

God did not Create his son to save them from sin, his son volunteered for the assignment after Adam and Eve sinned.

Mankind would probably cause their own extinction.

 

Just so you know where I'm coming from I'm about 90% convinced that the trinity is not true based various Bible verses.

 

God knows already what is in our hearts and he knows us in secret.

God gave his only begotten son.

 

2 Timothy 2:8 "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David....."
which seed are they talking about?

 

come on man, to prove Paul's writings are not his own, you quote from Timothy ...who was a disciple of Paul's ! with neither anointed, or having been given authority by Jesus or his disciples

so men, like you and i ..write whatever and tell us its the holy word 'because all scripture is inspired of God' and they were neither anointed, prophets, spirits ..infact they never lived or lived around anyone who lived at the time of Jesus

 

Jesus had a prehuman existence in heaven and thus existed as a spirit creature long before he was born on Earth.
(John 6:38) because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.
(John 8:23) So he went on to say to them: “YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world.
(John 8:58) Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

The Bible says: “But the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united.” (Mt 1:18) Prior to this, Jehovah’s angelic messenger had informed the virgin girl Mary that she would ‘conceive in her womb’ as the result of God’s holy spirit coming upon her and His power overshadowing her. (Lu 1:30, 31, 34, 35) Since actual conception took place, it appears that Jehovah God caused an ovum, or egg cell, in Mary’s womb to become fertile, accomplishing this by the transferal of the life of his firstborn Son from the spirit realm to earth. (Ga 4:4) Only in this way could the child eventually born have retained identity as the same person who had resided in heaven as the Word, and only in this way could he have been an actual son of Mary and hence a genuine descendant of her forefathers Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and King David and legitimate heir of the divine promises made to them. (Ge 22:15-18; 26:24; 28:10-14; 49:10; 2Sa 7:8, 11-16; Lu 3:23-34

 

come on man?
Okay if you don't want to believe Timothy, how about Peter, who was with Jesus from the beginning of his ministry?

Peter and Paul were contemporaries and knew each other, in fact Paul even corrected Peter and you still want to say that Paul was working on his own?

Well this is what Peter to say about it: (2 Peter 1:21) For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.

 

so holy spirit is God's own spirit ? how has it become a 3rd God ?

and all the passages you quote, seems a whole lot trouble the Most High would need to accomplish so little. if this is what it took to have a Son, through a mortal (without giving Mary immortality) how many spirits did he have when creating the universe

 

The young's literal translation uses "possessed" instead of "produced" which supports the idea that the verses is speaking about God's eternal wisdom. Christ is called the wisdom of God in 1 corrithians 1:25 so I think they are refering to God's own wisdom here.

As for as the being born part. I take it as God's wisdom being brought forth from himself instead of the idea that it is being created. It has always existed within his mind.

At the beginning of Proverbs 8 it states "1 Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice?" This doesn't sound like seperate created being to me.

The word "other" here is not in the original Greek texts.

 

This should be interesting then.

 

Yes it is God's spirit.
As for how it became a 3rd part of the trinity, I don't believe it is but monkeyboy seems to believe it you might ask him.

The scripture seem to indicate the Jesus was God's first creation and God used Jesus to create everything else.

 

Mathew 15 9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. - ? not God's ?

11.... but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man
14Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man

 

so what you're saying is the universe was not entirely created by God, Jesus was created (first!), then he created everything else - so there are 2 creators, who created what ?

Exodus 4:22:
"Israel is my son, even my firstborn." II Samuel 7:14 and I Chronicles 22:10: "...and he shall be my son (Solomon)." Jeremiah 31:9: "...and Ephraim is my firstborn." Also, Psalm 2:7.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 8:14).
Psalm 2:7, the Lord said to David:
"...Thou art my son: this day have I begotten thee.
Luke 3:38 says:
"...Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the Son of God."

Luke 10:25-28:
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, what is written in the law? How readest Thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and Thou shalt live.
These verses tell us that the inheritance of eternal life is for anyone who believes and worships no other God, but the One True God. Luke 10:25-28 agrees with Matthew 19:16-17 which says;
"And behold, one came and said to him (Jesus), Good teacher, what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life? So he (Jesus) said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? – No one is good but One that is, God. But if you want to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments."
There is no commandment that says to worship Jesus, but there that tells us to worship God alone.

 

How does this statement jive with Jesus saying as you do unto the least you do also to me?

 

Uh, ok...

Ok, so your saying he knows all that is and will be by defining him in that way, in no way could an omnipotent being shroud some form of knowledge from itself and still be said to know absolutely everything.

You must not know what the defintions of those words are.

Does this make sense to you?

Me either.

You are wrong, and your only defence is to simply say "no", very odd.

But god already knew Jesus was going to be sacrificing himself if he is totally omnipotent.

Sounds like your gods not very good at creating sentient life that can live in peace with itself.

Not very impressive for an omnipotent being in my opinion, but who an I to argue with a all knowing holy ghost.

 

Actually, there are a number of translations that use either word and Strong's seems to support either word as well.

AS for 1Cor. 1:25; if proverbs is saying that wisdom is Jesus, then proverbs seems to say Jesus was created, so 1Cor. 1:25 could be referring to proverbs ans would indicate that Jesus is seperate from God.

Okay but then what does the rest of Proverbs 8 mean?
“Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. . . . Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains . . . When he prepared the heavens I was there; . . . then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, . . . and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.”

It says, earliest of his achievements, God own Wisdom was not an achievement, God himself was always wise.

Of course you say you discount the brought forth as with labor pains but God's own wisdom was not brought forth as with labor pains seeing as God was always wise.

It says; I came to be beside him as a master worker, the beside him seems to indicate two persons standing side by side and not someone talking about his own wisdom inside himself. Then it calls the wisdom, being spoken of, a master worker which again, seeing as it is standing beside God, seems to indicate two persons rather than, one person talking about his own wisdom inside himself.

It says; I being glad before him seems to indicate that wisdom here is a separate being from God.

And the things I was fond of seems to indicate that the wisdom being spoken of here has the ability to form it's likes and dislikes and that is not some usually attributed to an individual's wisdom but to a separate being.

Actually the calling out and the raising of voice does sound like a separate being.