Bible Questions?

Sheol is the Hebrew word usually translated as hell and it means the common grave of mankind, gravedom; not an individual burial place or grave.

 

I am interested to know you view about Gehenna, and what it metaphysically relates to.

 

Gehenna means "Valley of Hinnom". The Valley of Hinnom was the garbage dump of Jerusalem and there was a continual fire there to burn the unclean things and the bones of the carcasses. Dead bodies unworthy of burial were put there.

Symbolically, Gehenna is used to show that those unworthy of a resurrection will be thrown away like garbage and completely destroyed just like the refuse that was thrown into the Valley of Hinnom. No everlasting torment is implied, as no one in Jesus' day was thrown into the valley of Hinnom alive or to be tormented, only things thrown away to be destroyed.

 

What does Rev 14:11 imply then?
And the smoke of their torments shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night, who have adored the beast, and his image, and whoever receiveth the character of his name.

What is the meaning of Matthew 25:41-46?
Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.
And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting

 

I think thats incorrect Trevor I believe the word is MARK.

Revelation 14:11 (New International Version)

11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

For example:

Revelation 13:16-18 (New International Version)

16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
so I believe Rev 13 is speaking of the AC and having everyone accepting is mark on your hand and before someone is like " but theirs multiple anti-christs" well their is which can be you and I but their is ONE main AC

 

well for me Matthews 25 was basically one of the MAIN reason why Jesus came to earth was to basically save us from hell period he preached more about Hell then Heaven. And once again this proves that Hell is REAL torture and fire for eternity, would you agree? if Jesus said so?

 

Mark, character...it speaks of the same thing. Sometimes letters and numbers are called "characters". If you look at the Greek, it could be translated as "character" in this sense.

και ο καπνος του βασανισμου αυτων αναβαινει εις αιωνας αιωνων και ουκ εχουσιν αναπαυσιν ημερας και νυκτος οι προσκυνουντες το θηριον και την εικονα αυτου και ει τις λαμβανει το χαραγμα του ονοματος αυτου http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev 14:11;&version=70;

A character (from the Greek χαρακτήρ "engraved or stamped mark (on coins or seals), branding mark, symbol") may refer to any sign or symbol.

 

Yes, I'd agree.

We probably do not agree on the specifics, but we agree thus far.

 

so....what was your question again? you seemed to understand?

 

cool DUDE!!:cheers2:

 

Now, I’ve never said that there aren’t scriptures that seem to indicate that there is a “Hellfire” but that the problem is how to understand them. Just reading them alone, it would be easy to say there is a “Hellfire” but what does the rest of the Bible say about the condition of the dead?

Starting from the very first with Adam and Eve, when God tells them what would happen if they sinned, God said they would die. If they were to burn in a fiery hell forever one would think that would be important to tell them. Also after they sinned, God did not tell them they would burn in a fiery hell but told them that dust they were and to dust they shall return. In fact no mention of “Hellfire” is made in the Hebrew Scriptures and that would mean the God kept his people in the dark about it for thousands of years.

Next, what does the rest of the Bible say Death is like?
The dead are shown to be “conscious of nothing at all” and the death state to be one of complete inactivity. (Ec 9:5, 10; Ps 146:4) Those dying are described as going into “the dust of death” (Ps 22:15), becoming “impotent in death.” (Pr 2:18; Isa 26:14) In both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, death is likened to sleep, a fitting comparison not only because of the unconscious condition of the dead but also because of the hope of an awakening through the resurrection. (Ps 13:3; Joh 11:11-14) The resurrected Jesus is spoken of as “the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.”—1Co 15:20, 21

So now with that in mind, what are the Scriptures you mentioned talking about?
(Revelation 14:9-11) 9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of his wrath, and he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

And let’s also look at Revelation 20:10: And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I’ve got to admit it sounds like “hellfire” to me but in the light of the forgoing scriptures it must mean something else.
So, what is the ‘torment’ to which these texts refer? It is noteworthy that at Revelation 11:10 (KJ) reference is made to ‘prophets that torment those dwelling on the earth.’ Such torment results from humiliating exposure by the messages that these prophets proclaim. At Revelation 14:9-11 (KJ) worshipers of the symbolic “beast and his image” are said to be “tormented with fire and brimstone.” This cannot refer to conscious torment after death because “the dead know not any thing.” (Eccl. 9:5, KJ) Then, what causes them to experience such torment while they are still alive? It is the proclamation by God’s servants that worshipers of the “beast and his image” will experience second death, which is represented by “the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone.” The smoke, associated with their fiery destruction, ascends forever because the destruction will be eternal and will never be forgotten. When Revelation 20:10 says that the Devil is to experience ‘torment forever and ever’ in “the lake of fire and brimstone,” what does that mean? Revelation 21:8 (KJ) says clearly that “the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone” means “the second death.” So the Devil’s being “tormented” there forever means that there will be no relief for him; he will be held under restraint forever, actually in eternal death. This use of the word “torment” (from the Greek ba′sa·nos) reminds one of its use at Matthew 18:34, where the same basic Greek word is applied to a ‘jailer.’—RS, AT, ED, NW.

Now let’s look at Matthew 25:41-46.

Matt. 25:46, KJ: “These shall go away into everlasting punishment [“lopping off,” Int; Greek, ko′la·sin]: but the righteous into life eternal.” (The Emphatic Diaglott reads “cutting-off” instead of “punishment.” A footnote states: “Kolasin . . . is derived from kolazoo, which signifies, 1. To cut off; as lopping off branches of trees, to prune. 2. To restrain, to repress. . . . 3. To chastise, to punish. To cut off an individual from life, or society, or even to restrain, is esteemed as punishment;—hence has arisen this third metaphorical use of the word. The primary signification has been adopted, because it agrees better with the second member of the sentence, thus preserving the force and beauty of the antithesis. The righteous go to life, the wicked to the cutting off from life, or death. See 2 Thess. 1.9.”)

2 Thess. 1:9, RS: “They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction* and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.” (*“Eternal ruin,” NAB, NE; “lost eternally,” JB; “condemn them to eternal punishment,” Kx; “eternal punishment in destruction,” Dy.)

Jude 7, KJ: “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (The fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah ceased burning thousands of years ago. But the effect of that fire has been lasting; the cities have not been rebuilt. God’s judgment, however, was against not merely those cities but also their wicked inhabitants. What happened to them is a warning example. At Luke 17:29, Jesus says that they were “destroyed”; Jude 7 shows that the destruction was eternal.)

Now I know that some will say that there really is a “Hellfire” and will reason away the Scriptures I’ve used to disprove it.

So which is right? Let me say one more thing about it.
Would a God who is Love, have people burn forever in “Hellfire”?
Would a God who is just, consider it just to punish someone for eternity for 70 or 80 years of sin?
The God I worship is also kind and mild and merciful and knowing that he is such, I do not believe that God could watch his Children suffer like that for the rest of eternity, no matter what they may have done.

 

Does the bible claim that man has dominion over all other living creatures on Earth?

 

Yes.

 

What about diseases such as Polio or virus's like AIDS?

 

At first I didn't make the connection, good question. I would say, even though the Bible doesn't say directly, that yes those could be included but that it would appear that it's talking about animals that have higher thinking abilities. But even then Mankind's dominion over the animals is imperfect because mankind it self is imperfect. Thus when mankind is returned to perfection, diseases such as Polio or virus's like AIDS will not be a problem because our immune systems will also work perfectly and will ward off such things.

PS Just wanted to say that even though from time to time you get a little perturbed at me, you still continue to ask some very interesting questions and by that I mean questions that I've never heard before or even thought of before. For that I thank you.

 

Wouldn't a more obvious answer simply be that at the time the bible was constructed, the people who authored it did not have knowledge as to the existence of such life forms?

 

I'm sure time to time you get equally perturbed by me as well, but we do occasionally have some pretty decent debates. :cheers2:

And yes I use the term debate loosely.

 

Well seeing as I believe God was the author, I believe he may have had knowledge as to the existence of such life forms and that is why in the Bible there are laws about not touching dead bodies and burying your excrement.

 

Well, I enjoy them.

And don't call me, Loosely!

 

Why would he not be more specific?, wouldn't just a hint as to the existence of these viruses and diseases have saved millions of lives throughout the past 200,000 years? (the amount of time Carl Sagan theorizes humans have been on Earth)

I could understand an agnostic god who simply created these organisms for the purpose of observing how creatures with "free will" would react under such conditions, but the god of many monotheistic religions claims to be a loving god.