I see Pax Man's point in the original post. Lateley when I come to this sub forum the most popular posts seem to be shit like "What are you wearing today?" Or some misguided schlub who wants opinions about shooting up. Or what are your favorite song lyrics. Not "What was it like to be shot with a firehose?" or "Are German Shepard Attacks as Gnarly as They Look on TV?" I have yet to actually view any of the "What were the 60's really like?" threads. Not because I'm not interested but I don't like the mental picture I get of the kid asking it. I usually imagine a young upper middle class white teenager from the suburbs playing make pretend games about being a hippie with a romanticised idea of what it was like. Almost like they found a new game to play that gets them attention. They feel like they can put on the clothes and imagine what it was like and magically be that until they find something new. My Grandfather was a beatnick in small town Maine. My father was a hippie once he got out of the Navy in '75 he went back to the land. He bought horses and built our home. He cuts wood, farms, and runs a school for sustainable agriculture. This is the environment I grew up in. I've had discussions with my dad about "The Revolution" and what went wrong. I learned the values first hand. These are the values that I live my life by. For me it isn't "a Fad" or "a Phase". I'm almost 35 now. I am probably old enough to be Shale or Paxman's son. I am probably old enough to be if not the parent than at least the cool uncle of alot of the kids on this site. I don't have to prove my hippiedom anymore. I also know where these kids are coming from. My rebellion was in the form of punk rock when I was 14. Then I figured out who I was. Like I said I think of alot of the kids who post on here are from white upper middle class backgrounds who are trying to adopt the "Hippie" act to piss off their folks without proper information as to what makes them a hippie. I actually like responding to the posts that ask "What does it mean to be a Hippie?" Because I feel like it is a way I can contribute to breaking a few stereotypes. The "counterculture" is still that a constantly evolving entity that works counter to the predominant culture. Because of that if you are a part of said culture then you deal with misunderstandings of what the customs and folklore of that culture are. Peace Out, Rev J
The thing ... at least as I see it... is that the images most folks get these days are of the idealized aspects of the era... the music, the style, the drugs... but there's a non-comprehension of the culture it was running counter to... how the events that had unfolded... and were in the process of unfolding made society ripe for a revolution of sorts. To fully understand what it was, one must experience the mindset of a high school senior in the mid and late 60's confronting the prospect of being drafted and shipped to southeast Asia to fight a war whose rationale had not been logically justified- and was responsible for sending young men back home- either seriously fucked up in the head or in flag draped boxes. Then there was the generational divide with regards to the civil rights movement- which very slowly got moving after WWII- getting increasing press coverage through the 50's... how was the "greatest generation" sounding off about segregation with the black American becoming increasingly vocal about being denied access to what their white counterparts took for granted... the better funded schools, access to restaurants, rest rooms, public transportation, etc... the reluctance of law enforcement to pursue whites who had harassed and or murdered blacks, the failure of southern white juries to convict the white murderers when they clearly were shown to be guilty... and the lack of outrage shown by this "greatest generation" who had been reared by a culture that took for granted that blacks were second class citizens... and this was not to be questioned. The children of this "greatest generation" may well have witnessed and absorbed casual comments from mom and dad that reflected their own opinion that blacks should just shut up and allow the culture to keep them in their place... then they go to school and be taught that in this land of opportunity- that all men are created equal. A modicum of critical reasoning skills would lead all but the most challenged minds to conclude that something just didn't follow. An establishment bent on preserving the status quo would be bereft of logical responses to the questions of why... and would not react very favorably to being challenged... after all didn't we go to Europe and the Pacific to "save the world" from evil tyranny?... so stop asking so fucking many questions, shut up... oh, and go register for the draft. Without an establishment that was in some ways so morally lost to protest against I would postulate that there would not have been any hippie culture. Most of the people in the day that you would visually identify as hippies were anything but.... their core values showed themselves after they cut their hair, traded their tie dye for a suit and tie, and took control of the establishment when they discovered that looting the economy for obscene personal gain was more fun than peace and love... and more acceptable to the older generation who just wanted their kids to have it easier than they did. Riiiiight!
Exactly, my folks didn't sell out like that. We lived next door to a banker who handed his kids everything. One of the things I'd love to do is teach an alternative US history class. I see one of the problems with our educational system is that our US history cources in highschool generally stop at WWII and only cover the 50's through the 70's in the last 2 weeks of class. They either never talk about or gloss over the comic book scare. The House Unamerican Activities Comittie. The Vietnam War. The Watts Riots. The Civil Rights Movement. The 68 democratic National Convention. The Black Panthers. The American Indian Movement. The Sexual Revolution. Stonewall. The gay rights movement. The Weather Underground. Kent State. etc. I had Hippie parents and enough exposure to the media both mass and and alternative so I was able to educate myself on these subjects. Some more than others. Peace Out, Rev J
i wanna just toss this out there. there are a lot of people who dress "hippie" who may not be , examples? Scene kids and whatnot lol. Even if they are trying to be something they are not, we (well I) still do respect them as an individual. I think everything we can state about the word hippie has been stated. Going along with what was said, hippie is I feel nothing more then being yourself to the point where governments, corporations, other people ect can't influence who you are, or what you do, or what you buy. and most of all, BE THE CHANGE YOU WISH TO SEE live it EVERYday
Git outta my head, you! From time to time I catch myself envisioning an alternate history contingent on something or someone just behind the scenes being removed... like Joseph Kennedy, for instance. Had he not tirelessly campaigned and helped bankroll the 1932 FDR run for office so much might have been radically different- though Roosevelt may still have won that election... it was the Depression and Herbert Hoover's hands-off approach that supposed that the economy would take care of itself that helped the changing of the guard, but with no Joe Kennedy to feel beholding to, what might have come of the president's extraordinary relationship with Winston Churchill without an ambassador's favoring appeasement for the Nazis for them to share contempt for. A more hawkish representative would have avoided the necessity felt to cultivate direct dialog and our involvement in Europe's war may have happened quicker. How might that have affected our negotiations with Japan in dealing with their conquest for (mainly Chinese) resources to fuel their growing economy? Further, without cultivating the political pedigree and coming so tantalizingly close to the coveted presidency himself, would Joe Kennedy had put so much energy in engineering the ascension of his sons to the political forefront... and with the war taking a radically different course, would Joe Jr. been killed and JFK inherited his father's misplaced presidential ambitions?
It's funny that I live around the corner from an Anarchist book store that hosts a free school. Maybe when I get my schedule in a line I may actually look into the prospect. It's funny that history was never my best subject. Peace Out, Rev J
Hey, how you know that - you weren't there? You one of those "readers" or something? Yeah, I was that generation and your account is spot on. My family believed in 'separate but equal' tho that is hard to explain. If it is equal why must it be separate? We moved from central city, St. Louis to the 'burbs - what everyone was doing in the '50s, where we traded the crime of robbery and theft to the crime of senseless vandalism by misguided youth or covert racism. I saw all of this and it didn't make sense. I had an astute social studies teacher in HS that put it into perspective and we 'youth' realized even more how fucked up the status quo was. The greatest generation was a herd that never questioned orders. That's how you win a major war but not how you live an enlightened life. Challenge Authority was my biggest lesson learned in my youth and I carried that into the world. I barely made it thru 4 years of the Air Force - was being written up by some gung-ho Capt. on my last assigment when rescued by a GS-13 in my office just to keep the peace. I learned that I could not live such a regimented life where you obeyed orders by rote, not to reason why. Now multiply that one life in rebellion by all the other post-war baby boomers coming of age. The making of The Greatest Generation's Horror Flick, consumed by their offspring. For a moment in our collective youth we did facilitate change. Sexuality finally got real for the most part, yet it would be into the 21st century before old puritan laws would be declared unconstitutional. OK, kiddies oral or anal sex is now legal everywhere, even Texas, Georgia and Florida since 2003. Grass is still ridiculously illegal - but that stupidity is being laughed at in prime time television (they rolled a joint at the kitchen table on Two & a Half Men last week) so it's just a matter of time. (Gotta find out which -if not all- of our elected officials are being bought off by the drug cartels to keep it illegal.) So, the world is different for the young ppl today than what we went thru. Probs are still here but not the many egregious ones that we were confronted with - The Draft and Civil Rights oppression (both racial and sexual) being major life challenges. Can't really fault a young person with imagination wanting to connect with the images of our time. I mean, I enjoy attending those Medieval Faire's to see the European tribalism re-enacted. Doesn't mean I will really live a Knight's life, but I do harbor some of the loftier ideals of era.
Perhaps as an alternative to teaching alternative history- write a book... or a series of books- each with the subtraction of an influence that is not on the surface of accepted history. Understanding history- comprehending how it has shaped us-- is a good way of developing an understanding of why things are as they are today. I imagine living in pre-war America... my time taken up by exhausting hours of low paid work... how trivial day to day behavior and habits reflected the closer relationship (out of necessity) I'd have had with my neighbors... how by today's standards I'd have been quite racist- though I'd certainly say otherwise if asked... probably after inquiring of the meaning of the term "racism", assuming I didn't forego the debate in favor of fist fighting the troublemaker who bothered me with that "shit" in the first place. The fallacy about most peoples' attempts to project themselves into a place in history is they forget that they would be a product of that time- thus be VERY different.
Yes... but We thrive by overcoming conflicts and challenges... creating peace and love society means removing the obstacles that enable us to grow- as individuals and as a people by forcing us to overcome them. What you are a proponent of is very much against human nature.
Ahhh I see! It's also compelling evidence of why the movement was doomed to failure. I see way too many individual deeds when people think they aren't being watched to have much faith in mankind as a whole.
I think I may have had a decent education in the St. Louis suburban high school of 1960-63. I was introduced to a term "Zeitgeist" or spirit of the times. I mean, if you only learn one German word in 12 years of school from Kindergarten, Zeitgeist is a big one - or at least the concept is. You can't isolate historical actions and view them with the prejudices of your time, you must see them in their own social settings. Then you understand more why a rebellious type such as me would join the U.S. Air Force three days after graduation? I would likely be drafted into the Army anyway (I preferred blue and working in an office instead of leech infested jungles with ppl shooting at me because I was shooting at them.)
There have always been phoneys among the hippies, the 60s were no exception. Some people looked like hippies but were only in it for the drugs and sex. Some who protested the war in Vietnam were only concerned about the draft, worried that they themselves might have to fight in it. Some were social misfits looking for acceptance and were drawn to the hippie spirit of tolerance and inclusion. But there were also those sincerely seeking to make the world a better, more peaceful place, and there are people like that today. Have they become harder to find? Could be. Perhaps people have become complacent, thinking that things are getting better now that Bush is out of office, just as people became complacent after Nixon resigned. If history is repeating itself I hope disco isn't coming back!
We thrive regardless. Encouragement need not be painful, although many times it is experienced as such, mostly because our senses are wrapped up in delusion.
