Beginning veg gardening for cheapos?

Some how post #20 got duplicated...

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Wow, what a wonderful guy you are! Very thoughtful. I'm truly impressed.

So, the county agent came over today and we talked about what I've got planned, and took a soil sample. I should be hearing back from that in the next couple weeks, and he may be able to help me get free/cheap seed also. He was a really nice guy.

I have most of the yard raked up, and already have a heap that's about 3x3x6. Since everything was so overgrown before, I couldn't really layer it quite ideally, but I think I got it pretty good. First, I took some of the woodier stalks and such and chopped them up real good with the mower for a bottom layer. then I raked around the outer perimeter, and piled on a second layer of mostly leaves and woody material (fine pieces, though - I was careful to pull out all the sticks and small trash I found) (I'm pretty sure the previous tenents of this house didn't know what a trash can was) After that I raked in most of the area of the yard, which was about 80% grass clippings, 20% leaves. From some of what I've read on compost, I gather that it would not be a good thing for air circulation and whatnot, to have too large a pile. I still have quite a bit of grass and leaves in the back yard, and haven't even touched the front yet. should I keep heaping it? I don't want to mess this up, but I also worry that I won't be able to add to it much later, since my mower doesn't have a bag and I can't see myself raking the yard like this many more times.

I think I'll wait to dig the beds until I hear back from the soil test. That way, I'll know if I should mix in any special organic material in the process. Am I on the right track here?

Very tired, so I don't have the brain capacity at the moment to read those potato links. I'll check 'em out in the morning. But I'm glad that you seem hopeful about it - I hope I can incorporate it into the garden scheme.

Bed time. Thanks again! - Linnea

 

Just finished reading that potato info. Very informative, thanks! I'm not quite clear on how to best plant either variety and best utilize wide-rows, though. Ideally, I guess I would grow some of each. The reason I most want sweet potatoes is because though I love all varieties of potato, I have insulin resistance (akin to a low-level diabetes) and they are much healthier on the glycemic index, with less simple starch. I can't seem to stay away, though, especially since I don't eat meat and they make for such a filling meal!

I started to read up on beans, because like I said before, I know nothing about growing or harvesting them, or how to best utilize them in the kitchen. There are so many varieties I'm blown away! It seems they mostly have the same preferences as far as growing goes (sowing directly in the ground, etc) but I gather that some are better eaten fresh and some are better dried? What would you recommend, for ease of growing and use, and especially as a good protein source?

What about corn? I'm probably building up too full a list of stuff to grow, but I guess once I started thinking on it all my fantasies of fresh veggies and memories of what I've enjoyed from farmers' stands have gotten away with me! Still, it seems like two 20 ft. wide rows would be plenty of space for a bit of variety...

As to the composting question I asked last night, I *think* I've come up with my own solution. I was out there appraising yesterday's work this morning, and noticed that around the edge of the yard especially, I'm still seeing a lot of leaves falling. They will probably have mostly all fallen by the time the pile I have so far is ready to turn. So perhaps I will work on raking up the rest of the lot in a couple of weeks - not on top of, but next to, the current pile - and then turn the current pile on top of the new one. Is this a good plan? It'll probably still end up quite large. I'm concerned that having such a large pile going into the winter might not be good. ???

I guess there isn't much else I can do until I hear about the soil test - other than daydream and plan. And I should probably get some of my regular work done also (It's been nearly a week since I've done any sewing :&) I expect you're busy again with your feast-cooking today. Hope it goes well! All the best, Linnea

 

I'm glad you had luck in Florida. Everything I planted was either eaten by bugs or cooked before I could get to it. :&
We are not too far from Harrison. We are quite close to MO and OK.
I guess I am not starting totally from scratch. My parents live about 75 miles north of me, and my dad is a gardener.
I am excited about all the resources the U of A offers. My husband will be going to school there in January, so I think we will be able to utilize some of them.
Thanks for the advice.

And, good luck on your garden, Humblebee.

 

wooo! Started digging this afternoon, and only got about 4 ft (by 4ft) done before it was too dark to continue. It's a start though! I figure I'll probably end up doing it in chunks like this, so by the time I hear back from the soil test I'll still be digging. So if I need to mix in any special organic material I'll go back and do it while the soil is still soft and workable.

Couple of additional questions, whenever someone might be able to answer....
I've not come across many rocks (in fact, only one notable one in the chunk I've dug so far) but have found a LOT of long, snakelike roots about 3-5 inches below the surface. They are long, and strong, and I don't know what they're from. Can't even tell if they're alive or dead. I'm hacking them up and separating them as best I can. Is this something that should concern me?
I've also noted a number of interesting or scary looking bugs and worms. Are there any bugs that should concern me while I'm in this stage?

It's slow going, but I'm double-digging the best I can! We're shorter on money than I had thought, though - so I couldn't afford to buy a spade and I think that's slowing me down. I did get a fork and I'm using it with a regular round shovel. The edges won't be perfect, but I think it'll work.

 

I'm sorry if you think I've abandoned you. I've been having some computer & health problems. The computer stuff seems solved, but I'm going back to the VA hospital today... don't know for how long.
More info: http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200561

I hope to be back soon .

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

my best to you P.O.D.
Sometimes a rest is the best medicine.
I have learned that myself. We want to do everything, but we just can't. I have come to think that doing one or two things very well is better than trying to 20 things and not doing my best on any of them.
Take it easy. . .

 

No worries, P.O.D.! Everything's started out great, I have a friend who's actually in the process of building a greenhouse on her property to start her veggies in this year, and she offered to start extras for me. Even gonna start some herbs from clippings, as well. So at this point I think all I can do is wait and continue to maintain the beds I've dug.

I'm sorry to hear that you're ill again. You will be in my thoughts - such a kind and helpful person, I will send healing vibes your way! Keep us posted when you return from the hospital, and take care of yourself!

Much love.

 

Hi Hummblebee,

Well, I seem to be back to 70 - 75 % functional. Did you get the soil test results? How's the digging going? How's the compost pile? How's all the rest?

In the next day or so, I should be able to get caught up with the questions & the lay out I was talking about.

More later ....

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Ooh, goody, goody! I'm so glad you're feeling better. Maybe the other 25-30% will come as the weather gets warm.

I got almost the whole first bed dug, and I got the compost started, and then the rain started. Since then, the only time it's dried up enough for the mud puddles to settle everything froze solid. So it looks like I might have to finish digging just before planting. The compost is looking good, though, and I've been adding to it from the kitchen and turning it every time. It's still just a heap right now, but a friend of mine is hooking me up with some fencing material I'm going to mess with to block it in (and I might even be able to make it work for the garden beds too!)

I did get the soil test results. Water pH 6.7. It says I'm high in phosphorus (84) and low in potassium (27). "Lime is not recommended at this time" "Broadcast 25 lbs. 6-12-12 per 1000 sq feet before planting" I think this translates into 2 pounds for each of my beds? It also goes into more detail about an ammonium nitrate sidedressing, which I don't really understand.

A friend of mine is putting up a greenhouse on her land and offered to start a bunch of extra plants for me. Even if this doesn't work out, I've decided to invest in buying seedlings from my local co-op store when the time comes, instead of starting from seed. The more I thought about it, the better an idea it sounded. I don't know if I told you, but I just cut dairy out of my diet, so I'm that much more anxious to have garden-fresh veggies around.

I was thinking of trying for some corn, too. What do you think of that? I was talking to my dad about it and he said he thought it might be a good use of a few feet at one end of a bed. And the idea of fresh corn is certainly mouth watering. Of course, I don't want to get too far ahead of myself. It's just that I like allllll veggies so much, I wish I could grow them all at once, and just have an unlimited supply!

Good to hear from you again! Linnea

 

I just want to thank y'all for this thread. It has really helped me. I'm hoping to contact my county agent soon.

 

Hey, cool! Where' in TN are you located?

 

I'd suggest that you turn the compost only every month. There are microbes at work, ones who don't like cold and/or dry air. They like the warmer & moist air inside. Turning it gets the newer, outer material in to where the real work is being done.

What is the "fencing"? The reason I ask is that it may be also useable for a potato enclosure.

I'm really happy, relieved, and encouraged by your soil test results. Backyards can have almost anything in the soil and still grow weeds, but not where you'd want to grow veggies. Many times I've seen places where you couldn't grow what you want, but were covered in weeds. Mother Nature has an ironic sense of humor like that. I don't know how much you know about pH, but a pH of 7 is neutral, low pH means acidic soil & lime is used to raise the pH, a higher number means alkaline. Your 6.7 is what a lot of folks would consider pretty much perfect. The 2 pounds per each bed is correct. The ammonium nitrate sidedressing is to restore nitrogen the plants use to grow.

That brings me back to something. Earlier when I was talking about beans, I should have said peas or beans. Peas and beans are among a type of plant called legumes, that means (hard as it is to believe) that they capture nitrogen from the air and transfer it into the soil for later use. Legumes are VERY important to know about. I highly recommend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legume . They are also about the highest source of protein you can grow in your garden.

As to the corn... I believe corn should only be eaten if homegrow. When the ear of corn is removed from the stalk, the sugars begin converting to starchs that second, and the conversion is very fast. In my opinion, the way to eat corn on the cob is to start the water boiling, go down to the garden and pick a few ears, shuck it on the way back to the kitchen and throw it in the boiling water just as you walk in. Ok, that being said, let me add that growing a small amount of good corn is real hard to do. For one thing, corn is known as a "heavy feeder", which means it draws A LOT from the soil, more than most plants. But mostly it has to do with how corn pollinates. Without good pollination, which is done best in a large block planting, the ears don't fill out well.

Got to go for now... more later...

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Right-o, that makes sense on the corn. That's why my dad recommended using a good few feet of the length of the wide beds on it. (I guess by having a block like that it pollinates easier/better?). It's something I haven't eaten in quite some time, not since I was staying up the road from a farm and getting it fresh in the late summer.

I'm not sure what kind of beans I'll grow. I LOVE black eyed peas, but I have absolutely no experience using them fresh, only dried. I know I'll probably want some amount of green beans, and definitely snow peas. (yummmm)

When I said that about "turning" the compost, I should have used a different term. I've only actually turned it about every 4 weeks, but when I take kitchen scraps out there, I put them on top of the pile and use my fork to just turn the topmost layer in from the outside of the pile, just to cover up the scraps. I'm trying not to attract any more critters than I have to - especially until I get it enclosed somehow.

The "fencing" I mentioned is a roll (I don't know the length) of 4-ft flexible plastic stuff. It's a kind of plastic mesh, all full of holes, the kind of thing you see bright orange at construction sites. It shouldn't be any problem at all to make it work for the compost, but I'll need to get it here this weekend and experiment with cutting, bending, and folding it before I know how I can use it for the beds or potatoes.

 

Hi,

One of the good things about gardening is the enthusiasm for growing a bunch of a lot of stuff. So far in this thread, the following are what's been talked about for you to grow: tomatoes, peppers, some sort of squash, some herbs, lettuce, radish, zucchini, garlic, onion, sweet potatoes, regular potatoes, corn, black eyed peas, green beans, snow peas and some flowers. Now, that's a lot of stuff, but between sequential planting and inter-planting(more than one veggie within an area), I think I have it figured out. The thing is you won't get a lot of any one veggie, but some of many, you'll get a chance to see how all these things grow, what they look like, how the taste fresh, and a lot of good experience. These are all good things. On the other hand, if you want enough of any of these to make a dent on your food needs (measured in number of servings), you'll have to eliminate some or get more area(perhaps by working with the friend with the greenhouse).

Seeds, etc.: Out of this list; tomatoes, peppers, some herbs, lettuce, radish, squash/zucchini, garlic, onion, sweet potatoes, regular potatoes, corn, black eyed peas, green beans, snow peas... tomatoes, peppers, herbs, squash/zucchini will do well as transplants & maybe lettuce & onion too. But radish, corn, black eyed peas, green beans, & snow peas will need to be started from seed, direct planted in the garden.
With lettuce, it will work best if direct planted into the garden and also if sequential planted - half a dozen or so, planted every week or so.
With onion, there are two basic types, green onions & bulb onions, and many varities within each. All can be grown from seeds, transplants or "sets". Seeds offer greater variety, but take 5 months or more to mature and are often susceptible diseases & bugs. Transplants (seedlings grown in the current season) are sold in bunchs at nurseries, etc., and usually form good bulbs in a short time (2 months or less), but are less, but somewhat susceptible diseases & bugs. "Sets", as they are called, are immuture bulbs grown the previous year, are the quickest to mature, have the least variety but are the least susceptible diseases & bugs. The cost goes up from seeds, to transplants, to Sets, but the time to harvest and risk of problems goes down - [perfect example of part of my basic philosophy -everything in life is a trade-off].
For garlic info - ask Woodenfrog - around here, he's THE MAN for garlic.
Potatoes (other than sweet): Well, you read the potato info. For Sweet Potatoes (YUM,YUM), ... sweet potatoes are started from "slips", which are root sprouts. They aren't always easy to find. Ask your good ole county agent. If you can't find them, I can tell you how to start your own. It's neither the hardest nor easiest thing in the world to do (another trade off), but best if you can get some.

Damn, poor_old_dad's poor_old_fingers are getting tired.....

Couple of other things, the fencing sounds great and to use fresh peas/beans - treat them as if they were dried peas/beans after soaking. And how did the cat repellant work? Do you know what the friend with the greenhouse will be giving you & when? Did you find out when your "last frost date" is (county agent again)?

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Great... I'm not too worried about getting every one of those veggies in there. I especially am feeling the importance of those things I normally always eat fresh and raw... (tomatoes, peppers, lettuce, salad stuff, etc.) and I know a few things will be later-season veggies (like winter squash) and a few things will usually give a lot of yield per plant (like zucchini). Garlic and herbs, I think I can do in a pot up on my porch... I can move them down by the garden beds also. If I need to eliminate anything, I'll probably start with those things I usually spend less on. Onions and beans, for instance, I can usually find quality and organic for relatively cheap.

A lot will also depend on what I can get. My friend with the greenhouse, I'm not sure how that's even working out or if she's got it put up yet. At minimum, I'll be able to get my herbs started from her. I think she's starting tomatoes and peppers very soon from seed, but I'm not sure. In any case, I don't think I can start seeds in my house - the only cat-proof room doesn't have it's own heater, and it would get pretty cold sometimes. If nothing else, there's a farmer's co-op nearby that supposedly has a good selection of seedlings of every sort. That's where my county agent referred me.

It's gone from freezing cold, to warmer but dreary and rainy lately. I'm hoping the rain will stop and my mud pit out back will drain next week so I can finish digging. Yay!

 

Oh Yeah, big AMEN about farmer's co-ops. Every where I've ever been they were good people to get to know.

You might want to call them and ask what they'll probably have this year and how much they'll charge. They should know by now, this close to gardening season. Also ask if they sell bulk seed in small amounts, or if they know who does. There are places that sell bulk seed, but you've got to buy like 5 pounds or something. But others sell at bulk (real cheap) prices in tiny amounts.... it's worth asking about.

And I don't think I've mentioned this before, if you're going to have a couple of anything that you'll get as transplants, it's usually cheaper to get a pack of seeds. You'll have to do a little shopping & price comparing then weigh that against time & convienence.

But anyway, the first things you'll need are lettuce, radish and snow peas.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Right-o. I'll try and go in to the co-op on my Partner's next weekday off. I know that buying seed is usually cheaper than buying transplants... but the more I think about it, I don't know if I'll be able to start from seed in the house. The only room that would be an option for it has VERY limited space, and in order to heat it I'll need to start letting the cats in it any time they want, which means the babies will quickly be eaten (apparently that cat doesn't even mind the taste of soap!)

At the moment I'm very frustrated. I really really want to finish digging, but we've had so much rain out here lately... I had started digging, and got almost finished with the first bed, when the weather started. So now there's a hole I have yet to fill in, that filled with water, and every time it finally starts to drain and I can start planning to go out in a day or two - we get more rain. It's been like this for weeks. I don't know what to do - part of me wants to just keep digging despite the mud, but I know that'd be a bad idea because all the dirt will end up just as packed down as before. I guess all I can do is wait until we have better weather for longer periods of time... but that might mean not finishing the digging for another couple of months. By then, will it be too late for some things?

I guess I can take comfort that, if nothing else, I'll have a good chunk of later-season veggies. And this fall everything will be set up so I can plan ahead and plant things like onions and garlic, before the cold even fully sets in.

 

You're absolutely right about not digging in the wet ground.

You've already probably gotten enough ground broken up for early stuff, and you'll have plenty of time for the later season stuff. And you're also totally right about it all being ready for a fall/winter garden. The list of fall/winter veggies is almost better than the summer. Kale, beets, endive, collards, turnip greens, like you said garlic & onoins, lots and lots of stuff. Speaking of garlic, did you see what Woodenfrog said about growing garlic in pots? He gives it a big thumbs up. Visit his web site, he knows about a lot of things including garlic.

As to what you said in the other thread about growing mint & lemon balm in the sewing (cold) room, all mints and lemon balm (in fact most herbs - NOT basil & cilantro) are safe to well below zero!!

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Yes, I did see that about the garlic. And who knows, maybe I'll even find some space in the ground for a little bit of garlic. I'm probably the least concerned with onion of all the veggies, because (even though it's the one I use more than most others) it's the one I can usually find organic at the grocery store for the least money.

One question about the potted herbs - if they do allright in the cold, could I start them from seed in the cold as well? I'll be able to start some (not sure what, exactly) from cuttings from my friends. But I'd like to have as much as I can, especially varieties that will be good in cooking and teas. My sewing room gets lots of sunlight during the day, and a little bit of heat (on days I'm working in there, it warms up nicely) but at night with the door closed it gets darn cold! You said basil and cilantro don't do cold - are they perennials? Should I just plan on growing them outdoors and harvesting/drying them at the end of the season? Is there anything else I should know about herbs?

You said the first seeds I'll need are lettuce, radish, and snow peas. Shall I plant them directly into the bed, after the last frost? (btw, I do have that date, but I've got to hunt down the paper it's written on - I'll post it later...) And should I plan on transplanting tomatoes and peppers and such at the same time?

Oh, I need to get some work done. No more distractions. Thanks!