BBC Reported Building 7 Had Collapsed 20 Minutes Before It Fell

I wasn't addressing you directly. I was asking everyone to make up their own minds. These claims have gotten increasingly fringe over the years.

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haha ok I agree with you. Why do you think they have?

I think they have because a large majority of the population are now asking questions about 9/11....legitimate ones like how did the hijackers get into the country, how did they do everything they did while under the surveillence of multiple intelligence agenices, why has Able Danger been covered up?

Now, the opposition needs to discredit those questions by posing BS ones like "No planes hit the towers?" so that gets intertwined with actual relevent questions about 9/11....

You do know that Bill Doyle...the head of the biggest 9/11 families group with over 7,000 members...has said that he believes about 50% of his group believes it was a total inside job, and a majority of the other 50% have a lot of questions.

 

The truther claims have become increasingly fringe because all of them have been debunked. Then they resort to making claims that are so wild that they are not even falsifiable. For example, secret invisible energy weapons that no one can comprehend except some shadowy figures in government.

Here's a C130 that crashed near an apartment in Iran. Not much left of the plane. A wheel can be seen . We'd have to argue that it was really a cruise missile since the pieces are so small.



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hahaha, see shaggie, i try and have a conversation with you and then you link me in with no planers. My questions involve who funded the hijackers, who allowed them to get their visas when they were on a terrorist watch list, who covered up Able Danger and why was the 9/11 commission never made aware of it?

I agree with you that these No Plane people are hurting our movement....can you please stop linking me in with them.

 

Here's a photo of the white smoke mentioned earlier. It was coming from a fire burning in a parking lot area just south of 1WTC and 3WTC. It probably started from debris that came out the south side of 1WTC after the aircraft strike. The trajectory of the debris would have been in that general area.

Conspiracy groups have claimed without any justification that the smoke was due to secretly planted thermite in the basement of the south tower.



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I have not...so stop generalizing.

 

ANY serious person would have questions......

 

Yeah, well according the Sean Vannity and Bill O' Lielly...we who ask questions about 9/11 are hurting the families...when in reality 50% of the biggest 9/11 families group believes it was a total inside job.

 

Another photo of the gash in 7WTC. This one is in the same region but further down from the previous photo I posted. Various sections of the gash can be seen in different photos. The smoke usually obscures most of it in any particular pic.



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Shaggie, show me a steel framed building in history that was reduced to rubble from fire.

 

7WTC, although it was also impacted by debris from the north tower so it wasn't a fire-only collapse.

They need to stop designing buildings this way. It's bad design practice to suspend a building over an electrical substation, use no concrete in the core or perimeter, run pressurized diesel lines throughout the building that keep a fire going for 7 hours in the same place, connect column cores with weak splices so that they bend easily under small lateral loads, connect floors with connections that can't resist bending moments, use long span floors that sag during fire and pull in the walls causing them to buckle, design floors such that a failure of one high up propagates a failure all the way down the building, and use sprayed on fire proofing that is easily dislodged from aircraft impacts and impacts of debris from collapsing towers.

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Another photo of the same gash. ABC news was taking video from the west side of the Hudson. This is a still from the video when the smoke temporarily cleared.



Superimposed images. Not many images show the entire gash.



The gash on 7WTC (yellow lines) happens to be in the same location as where all the diesel pipes came up through the elevator shaft region. The pipes exited the shaft region on various floors and extended toward the gash on the south perimeter wall.

That would account for how the pressurized diesel lines started leaking and some of the subsequent fires which burned the rest of the day in the same location and weakened the structure at the lower levels, especially the region around the 5th to 7th floors where trusses and transfer girders that were suspending the building over the electrical substation. Even if debris collapsing down the gash didn't hit the lines directly, the vibrations could have easily jolted the pipes loose. The gash happened in the worst possible place.

In its perliminary report, NIST apparently didn't realize that the gash extended all the way down the building. They show it as only roof damage, which wouldn't break the diesel pipes. The video from ABC news needs to be looked at carefully in order to see the extent of the gash.



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Debris from the north tower struck 7WTC near the top floors. Notice that the collapse propagated all the way down, probably to the ground level. The gash is defined by columns all the way down after the initial larger smashed section near the top. One section of floor after another collapsed, all starting from some initial damage near the top. That shouldn't happen in a properly designed building. That is probably a code violation since the collapse that caused that gash was progressive.

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Another wide angle still from ABC video showing nearly the entire gash. It agrees with the reports from firemen of a gash going up most of the building.



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So how would the damage be consistent with the collapse of the building, which fell into itself in approximately 6.5 seconds?

 

Gash my hairy white ass...you apologist....even Silverstein admitted on television that they made the decision to pull it....what a fat load of bullshit

 

More photos of the impact on 7WTC. Looks like a piece of perimeter wall from the north tower struck 7WTC. The location of the impact is the same as the gash. The designers didn't anticipate the building being struck by debris from a collapsing quarter-mile high tower.





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Wow...those are great pictures. Fire still has never caused a Steel Framed, 47 story building to collapse. WTC5 and WTC6 suffered just as much structural damage if not more from falling Debris as 7, and they stayed intact. But thanks anyway for the pictures shaggie



WTC5



Again, another view of WTC5 and 6. Much damage from the Falling Debris of Towers 1 and 2, but the Core Columns are still in place.

 

There wasn't much left of 5WTC and 6WTC either, especially 6. 5WTC was along the diagonal of the north tower, so it was spared some of the falling debris which went mostly in the N-S and E-W directions. They weren't high rises like the the towers, so there wasn't enough mass to start a global collapse like what was seen with the towers and 7WTC. 5WTC and 6WTC weren't suspended over an electrical substation with transfer girders and didn't have a diesel system in them that kept fires burning in the same region most of the day.

The towers had 14 and 29 stories of mass above the damage zone, which was about 3 times that needed to propagate a global collapse. 7WTC was even worse and had about 40 stories of mass above the 5th to 7th story area where the building was suspended over a substation. Diesel fires were burning most of the day in that area and a system of transfer trusses and girders likely failed.

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CNN also reported the likely collapse of 7WTC. Firefighters also said it was unstable and would likely collapse. BBC thought that it had already collapsed. There were rumors in the news media that One Liberty was about to collapse or had already collapsed which turned out to be wrong.



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