Barriers to Enlightenment

Discussion in 'Buddhism' started by Neosimian, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    As I said, if there is something specific that you have trouble with I will gladly fill it out for you. Again neosimian, you claimed that rehashing old complaints would be a waste of time and that is exactly what it is. I don't know who the Skeptics are, but they are not part of my past but of yours.
    Since we have agreed that life is emergent, coming to conclusions tends to disregard probabilities that may arise.

    How specifically, did you seek to meet me half way? So far it appears to me that you have dictated the kind of answers you want, and the form that they should come in. My speech is not above you or your understanding, but it might be beyond your level of commitment to communicate. I have reduced all the statements you have asked me to.

    I asked you a question, what do you mean by resonance. You did not answer it. I have answered every question you have put to me. If I was not trying to communicate, I would not be responsible for the great body of posts that are in this thread.


    It is not possible to impress upon someone that they are deep or clever unless the person making the observation is also deep and clever. Self can only be known by self.
    Again, I am not trying to be obtuse, not trying to erect a wall of words to impress people. You say you did that, fine, it is not my choice to do that. You might one day discover that people will embrace you or not, regardless of what you do.

    You just showed me a new word, obscurantism, which is a resistance to new ideas. I had to look up the meaning of the word as I had not heard or used it before. I am sure you didn't attempt to keep your meaning from me.
    Never do I attempt to show you wrong. As a matter of being you cannot be wrong, but we can believe things that are not true.
    I would appreciate you looking over what is written and if there is any point at all that you do not understand or do not agree with, that you point it out to me for the sake of communication. You would find much that you had heretofore not considered.

    If you want to identify my ego instead of referring to the experience of your own, understand that it is committed not to preserving status, but to apprehending the truth. If that is also true for you then we cannot fail to succeed. Further, no truth can be had unless it is shared. I cannot keep truth for myself because to be true, it is shared by all. Specialness is the ego's best defense against the truth.

    Reality is non local, nor is it remote.

    Is there any item that you do not understand in this post?
     
  2. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    There is after all, a question you asked that I missed. I was mistaken earlier in saying I had answered all of your questions. You asked about time and memory in regards my comment about the lizard brain.

    This, on the surface, will seem like nonsense but, everything happens now or it doesn't happen at all. Everything occurs at once. Memory is living tissue and that memory is unbroken in the history of life. You can access different locals and periods of time within the spaces of that memory. We have in us a coded history that recalls every primitive sensation. All happening is still happening.

    Creation is a law without opposite.
     
  3. willedwill

    willedwill Member

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    I'm waiting, a la Hegel. ten years for my enlightenment.
     
  4. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Do you think waiting contributes to critical mass?
     
  5. willedwill

    willedwill Member

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    I am not One. I am one amongst many effects from the continuous causality of the immaculate perception.:indian_chief:
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I agree Dope, everything happens now, all we have is now. But when we attempt to grasp it, even now, it slips away.
    Going further, Thoughts of the past always occur through present memory; now, and thoughts of the future are always projections we make; now. Neither has reality in the present time. However, without the concept of a past or future time, the present has no meaning.

    Consciousness alone persists.
     
  7. willedwill

    willedwill Member

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    It's easy. I am thedope and I am willedwilling God at enlightenment. (n/t)
     
  8. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Is consciousness then, immutable? I don't understand the statement without a past or future the present has no meaning. Why is that necessarily the case?

    It seems to me eternal now is not a collection of linear instants but everything is happening now, or rather now does not end. A dinosaur dies and it's bones are fossilized, that process is still happening now. A fossil deposit may have been deposited long ago but that deposit still holds a place in extant geology. The living tissues are recycled over and over as energy through transduction. This is not an essential point to me but I am curious to your point.

    You say only consciousness endures, but we don't display consciousness dissociated from biological form. Is dna then equivalent to consciousness, because it is the information coded in the dna that is propagated during biological reproduction. To you consider all substance to be imbued with consciousness or just biological life?
     
  9. vansrouge

    vansrouge Member

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    I agree.

    Oh, that's a message I want to share. :)


    That's ok, I haven't remembered the term.

    Exactly.

    Comparison needs to be destroyed.

    Yeah, that's what I meant.


    Time has Past, Present and Future. Three distinct terms to describe de Now.

    Stop thinking about time, try to see it in other way.

    Past, Present and Future is Now. Now is eternity, it's a moment that is always here.

    Everything is always changing, being transformed.

    Every changing/transformation has somekind of a pattern, night and day, earth and sun, etc. The forecast(/remembering) of these events, creates time. (This pattern can be associated with speed "notion").

    By the way, not patterned transformations can create the same illusion.

    And that's all I have to say now.

    Peace! :2thumbsup:

    (P.S - There's no barriers to enlightenment because it's always here. Look by yourself. When you're walking with no brain noise (thoughts) you see things, when the brain noise is present you see the same things but this time you're paying more attention in your thoughts. Now paying attention in the Uno (Universe) is the recognition of the enlightenment. Sometimes it happen automaticly, but we can control it.)
     
  10. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Dope,
    Unchangeable? It constantly changes, perhaps in its apprehension of itself, but is unchangeable in that it always is. I believe consciousness is the underlying reality of the universe.[FONT=&quot]
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    This is an Advaita Vedanta concept. For time to exist it must flow from a past, to the present and then onto a future. But if we only exist in the present, there is no past, any thought of a past that we recall is a present thought, further when it was experienced it was also in the present and now it has vanished for good. So there is no past. As to the future, it never will be, as it always fades away from the present and is never reached. Now, if there is no past, and there is no future, how can the present exist as the present is between the two non-existent times?

    But the dinosaurs exist now along with the fossils. Since all is now. I'm not saying I fully understand this concept, it may even be beyond understanding, at least for me. But we could get into relativity theory which relates time to motion. So that different velocities experience different nows.
    In my opinion, there are different levels of consciousness. Underlying all levels is the unifying field of ultimate consciousness. If that makes sense. Again, going into quantum theory, which I struggle to understand, two sub atomic particles (photons non-biological) can be aware, or conscious of each other's movements or wave function irregardless of distance, time, or contact. This has been proven through experimentation. I think one was the split slit experiment, or something like that. I'd have to look it up.
    Vans,
    I think I can agree with this. Without memory, there is no concept of time.
     
  11. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Okay, what do you mean by consciousness in this case, is it a kind of awareness? Personally it appears to me that consciousness as an underlying reality, must have a singular and unchanging intent, otherwise reality would be in contention with itself.

    There is another way to regard time. Both the past and the future are artifacts of the present. this is time flows from the center both toward the past and toward the future simultaneously. To try to get a feel for this I offer the analogy that we grow both space and time from this eternal present.
    Presently dinosaurs exist as more modern species. A little dinosaur in all of us, especially birds.

    I like that idea of different velocities experiencing different nows. We could also examine economies of scale such as "cosmoses". The cosmos at an atomic level works at a whole different time scale or frequency, than a geological cosmos. These economies of scale exist within each other.

    I don't really understand it myself but I recall the information from a transcendent meditation. I had a ecstatic mystical experience where I found myself in a historic time. I didn't quite comprehend what was happening as I wondered if I was remembering a past life or such thing. I focused the meditation on the question of what this phenomena was about and the answer I got was that it was possible to remotely view events removed in time because everything happens at once. The meditation and the remote viewing were two separate events. I undertook the meditation to try and understand the other experience.

    Another way to get a hint of a taste is to consider the farther forward oriented our investigations of the light of the universe, the older the light gets. We go both forward and backward at the same time. Or look at how we mark our ages and count birthdays. We have in fact only one birth day and we are still in it. This is not meant to be a dogmatic description but just another way of conceiving things.
     
  12. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    vansrouge,
    I have dial up, so I don't do youtube...it looks like spam, but what do I know.

    Dope,

    I don't know about intent. When singular consciousness contends with itself, perhaps the universe is born.

    Well, maybe the past, but the future never exists.

    That's not what I meant. I was thinking more of all times existing at once.

    So anyway, I'm really tired as I'm not feeling well so I can't give this stuff my full attention. I'll check tomorrow.
     
  13. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    The future exists, not as a predestined arrangement but in the respect that inhalation is always followed by exhalation. The future is believed to exist as the linear approach of time, but the future is always an echo of the present, the exhalation following inhalation. That is how we can alter the future by changing the present.

    I am positing that there is the eternal present and within that eternal present
    are the reflections of both past and future. I posit that both the past and the future are artifacts of current emergence. In this way all of the past and all of the future are contained or are occurring in the present. Once a photon of light is emitted from an energetic source, what becomes of that photon traveling at the speed of light? It is a good bet that it is still traveling after 14 billion years.

    No problem at all. Thank you.
     
  14. willedwill

    willedwill Member

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    No problem? The arrow of time is trying to get the body under control of the mind; also, is that ever anyone's mind to be sure for the exactly selected Body. But maybe we are already selecting the future Body or assortment of bodies. Just being consistent to my view.:)
     
  15. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    This is what we appear to doing, learning how to consciously create. Its desire is for us, but we must learn to master it, that is, the autonomous nervous system, and its' sympathetic and parasympathetic responses.
     
  16. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Well we're getting into cause and effect here. Sure, the future is influenced by what we do in the present, but what we do in the present only affects the present when it arrives, the future never arises unless we look backward to a past present and think about what we planed for a future present. Ha! Does that make sense?

    Hummm, our present actions are influenced by our memory of past presents, and our projection of those past, and the present, present into a hypothetical future present.
    Sure. The past is an artifact in that our memory persists in the present. the future is a projection.
    Well, this gets into too much physics. At the speed of light would it even be a photon? I don't know.

    I think we're all on the same page here. The present creates the past and looks to the future.

    Are we staying from barriers to enlightenment, perhaps we should start a new tread on the present???
     
  17. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    I understand what you say. You speak of the present as though it were a specific instant in time. Eternal present is unaffected by time but is affected by choice or current emergence, conversely as well, the emergent current.
    Creation is a law without opposite.
    Yeah I'm uncertain as well, the technical truth of photon travel. I was alluding to the fact that once created it remains or is not uncreated, which would be like things becoming unreal. If we are to understand the term real,
    let it be an immutable state. Nothing unreal exists.

    One barrier to enlightenment is the belief in the substance of the nonexistent.
    For example, misunderstanding is often treated as a type of understanding. We say you got it wrong. This is not correct. Misunderstanding is understanding missed. It was not understood at all and presupposes no liability. So the idea is had that one must "pay for their mistakes". Payment is not the remedy for error, correction is.

    Well we are in fact, together in reality. It is generally regarded that the present is the result of the past, but the past doesn't arrive until it happens in the present. We have the illusion of accumulation when all the while it is current emergence or emerging current. We can dramatically change direction at any moment and emerge untouched by the passage of time.
    A barrier to enlightenment, is the belief that it takes time.

    How divergent are we from barriers to enlightenment? How far are we from buddhism, if buddhism is reaching to dispel ignorance? A barrier to enlightenment is thinking that it is found in a form. Form is defined by negative space, what we do not see.
     
  18. poohphilosophy

    poohphilosophy Guest

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    I just came across a friend who told me that being mindful through meditation is the core of buddhism. I got curious, and would like to know (especially those who have practiced mindfulness and meditation in their adult life) how it indeed changed your outlook on life and how you perceive the challenges that occur through the course of your life? I am very curious about finding myself and inner peace, I just wanted to be inspired by true experiences of real people. Thank you very much.
     
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Being mindful is being aware of yourself and others, and the interrelationship of everything, in my opinion.

    So, when you encounter things and events in your daily life you do not become fixated on one aspect only, being mindful, you explore various outcomes, possibilities, and outlooks before you act.

    In time mindfulness should become as natural as breathing.
     
  20. mustlivelife

    mustlivelife Knows nothing!

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    People here are talking about mindfulness like it's some sort of wonder cure. I believe it is not. Meditation might calm you down, be good for your circulation and spine and allow you to increase the functionality of your brain but meditation alone does not bring peace. I believe that true peace is unattainable right now and for the forseeable future. The more mindful you are, the more problems with the world you will see, the more you will realise the stupidity of the human species.

    Supposedly enlightened people these days, bullshit. There is no end to this road, it goes on and on and on, to find the end of the road is to die. The only way we could truly achieve the peace and happiness we seek is for all the world to become right, for all our earthly problems to cease and the badness in people everywhere to become good. If someone says they are at peace in this world (especially in the USA, UK and most of Europe) means that they are either very submissive, very stupid or have managed to block out a great deal of upsetting information as upsetting, aka mentally ill. If you are at peace with the way the world is currently then there is something wrong with you.

    The reason we feel wrong in our lives, the reason we do not feel at peace with ourselves and others is because we are killing ourselves and poisoning the planet. Anybody who does not recognise this and take action is merely uneducated and by no means enlightened. It is true that some are enlightened, have seen the folly of man and so return to nature, do harm to nothing and are servants of the earth. None of them drive cars or use the internet, none of them watch Sofia Coppola films and read Dan Brown books, none of them eat more than the calories and nutrients they need to live and none of think they are enlightened, they realise that there is no such thing. They live in the hope that the rest of humankind will return to nature, too, and in such hope are they trapped, for it is the only thing between them and peace.

    To sit idly by (albeit with a straight spine and crossed legs) while humans are still killing themselves, each other and the earth... Is that what you call enlightenment? I know some people that think they're really spiritual and at one with the earth, yet still consume oil products, fail to educate themselves and for some reason still have faith in the political system and economy.

    When you graduate a university you become an alumni, which means somebody that is enlightened. The illuminati means those who are enlightened. What makes them enlightened? Their KNOWLEDGE. You want to become enlightened? LEARN!!! The more you learn, the more you will feel the pain of the world, the more you will feel pressed to do something about it.

    So, in conclusion, my pathway of this enlightenment/peace thingy: Learn what your problems are then solve them. Then learn what all the other problems are and solve them. Sound impossible? IT IS. Stop kidding yourselves.
     

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