Bailing out the auto industry where do you stand?

gardener i dont know what you read of my posts but its obvious your having reading comprehension issues..

once again i never said anything but "from what i read the low oil prices are having a negative effect on the economies of states that rely on energy as a income"..
how you comprehend that as defending big oil i have no idea..
but it doesnt surprise me coming from you..

 

The difference is the oil industry is already subsidized, and has reaped record profits in the last few years through speculation and price gouging. If they are laying employees off today they are doing so only to maintain a profit margin that was accomplished through manipulated markets, and can no longer be maintained with the economic collapse.

Which I personally think 4.00 a gallon gas lead us into.

 

so how do you get that im "defending big oil" out of my statements??

 

We shouldn't even be considering bailing out big petroleum, it shouldn't even be part of the equation.

 

i was referring to the loss of tax base the states are going to experience(read the article i posted)..
states are quickly running out of money and will need federal help.
the loss of the revenue from energy is only going to exacerbate the situation for those states..

i guess i should have clarified that originally..

 

Perhaps we should revisit their subsidies?

http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2...l-companies-est-30-40-billion-and-maybe-more/

And perhaps we should look at what McCains strategy would have been:

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2008/true_cost.html

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2008/img/states_mccain_breaks.jpg

 

what the fuck does what mccain would have done make a hill of beans?

im tapping out of this discussion before you make my head explode gardener.

have a nice day..

 

You brought up big petroleum.

 

I would be very curious to understand what payments that our Treasury Dept. is making to petrolium companies?

 

Yeah we are now bailing out the financial world to the tune of 700 billion, and for years we've been paying off big oil at the tune of 32.9 billion a year for years, but the automotive industry that employs over a million workers, and impacts all fifty states isn't worthy of a bailout? Even if further unemployment will lead to a decline in the market?

 

And if the automotive industry leads to a decrease in petroleum use, that in itself will lead to maket decline for big petroleum. What are we supposed to do? Continue to subsidise big oil, but let one of the few manufacturing industries in our nation of tangible goods evaporate because that's good for the market in the long run.

The fact that they haven't focussed on energy efficient vehicles is mainly due to the fact the big oil lobbies have lobbied against this interest for years with their increasing profits.

What exactly is this market running on?

 

Let the Big 3 Auto Makers go into Chapter 7.

Bankruptcy will not halt all automotive production.
Let the US Goverment function as a reciever.
Chapter 11 will wipe out stockholders equity, cancel the golden parchutes.
Fire the Chairman and the Board of Directors.

Let the production workers contribute to retirement and health care like any other worker does. Let them pay Co-pays and deductabiles like anybody else does.

Restructure the companies.

If The Auto Industry is so great then why is Michigans economy in the tank? Lets not fool ourselves.

The Big 3 are already broken beyond repair. Kirk Kavorkian and Warren Buffett dumped thier stock holdings when they realized a turn-around was imposssible. Should tax payers rush in?

During the financial bail outs there was a lot of questioning, curiosity, cyniscism. all good things.

Why the doe-eyed rush to send these people our money?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html


.

 

If they go into bankruptcy, who will get the pieces? Who gets cut out? What about the people who retired and still get their healthcare from the company and collect a pension? It will not be painless.

The irony here is that these companies lobbied for the state of affairs that will now be their downfall. Had they not resisted universal healthcare and strong social security, they would be in a much better position.

 

I don't think so, and I hesitate to base my decisions on those like Buffett. What exactly are his interests are they in jobs? or simply dividends? I see keeping industry and manufacturing in the states as an investment in our infrastructure and society.

During the fincial bail out there may have been questioning, but then the money was handed out and even now no one is accountable, the banks aren't freeing up credit. AIG is still planning retreats. Is see no results or benefits in the capital already expended.

 

What industry is left? And they have only done what every other company has done as far as universal healthcare. Big petroleum is not paying for their employees healthcare, if they can foist it off on someone else.

What industry is left for US citizens to be employed by?

 

Allowing these Corporations to re-orgainze under Chapter 11 will give them a chance to emerge from bankruptcy in a stronger position without the liabilities that are bringing them under now.

The plant and production capabilities will be re-launched and re-capitalized. Existing workers should be offered an up-dated employment agreement.

Gardner, I will agree that the interests of the general public are not in sync with Kirk Kervoranin or Warren Buffet, that bit was thrown in back there to show that knowledgable investors have backed off because of unsolvable problems within the current Big 3.

These industries need to turn away from the easy profits of the big SUV cars. The smaller vehicles have a more narrow profit margin. GM needs to compete with a lower cost basis.

 

I think they have been, but this down cycle came out of the blue. Republicans, democrats they all say it was unforseen.

GM from what I understand has eight alternative fuel vehicles being manufacturered.

 

Why didn't we let the banks and AIG go through bankruptcy? Because it would destroy their credibility in the market, and that's exactly what the automotive industry is afraid of, but not only on Wall Street but with consumers, because unlike the finance world the automotive industry actually produces and sells a product.

Big finance and Wall Street trade debt, which would you rather support?

 

interesting read,has a link to the GM fear monger video in it as a bonus..

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/11/stop-auto-bailout-campaign.html

 

yeah, liabilities... like pensions, healthcare, and any number of promises made in the past to folks who held up their end of the bargain.

Those liabilities are people, buddy.