Attitudes towards politics

While the Native Americans didn't have a government per se, most tribes did have counsels of elders... which is a better way to go, but there is still a controlling body watching over the people and making decisions.

 

Yes I understand. But it was basic and all the tribe was included in the decisions. But yes the elders were held in high importance. They weren't power hungry manipulators. And there was no "class" structure.
It still wasnt a "government".

 

And they tripped on peyote, I mean what more can a guy ask for?

 

Splitting hairs..... It wasn't a government such as modern society sees "government" no... but the counsel of elders is a "governing body" as such.

 

Oh yea that is true. I was basicaly saying it was nothing like the system of today. And no class structure. I wasn't saying you were wrong.

 

I know.... Just clarifying for other readers, brother. :2thumbsup:

 

Like most things Native American, there is no real way of knowing what the actual facts are any more, what with suppression and glamorization.

But the popular concept of the N.A. tribal counsel is not a ""governing body" as such", as was pointed out the tribal counsel was an opportunity for the tribe to gather and discuss what was affecting the tribe and what to do about it. Then, even when it was decided by the counsel what to do, individuals then decided whether to follow the counsel's recommendations or to go their own way. Thus making the tribal counsel, less a "governing body" and more of a advisory panel.

 

Very well said. It was a wonderful system. And I believe that is the natural way.
We do not need other's to "govern" us and tell us what to do and how to live, and what we should or shouldn't put into our bodies. But the commanders of this world have done a good job at making people believe we need them and their governments.

 

Thanks.

I feel that it is good to counsel with others and sometimes to try to act as a group but in the end, it should always be an individual decision and responsibility to do so or not and such group action should never be forced on others.

 

OWB,
Let's say it is the year 1600 and we are both Cherokee living in the mountains of southern Appalachia.

If I did something totally against tribal values, maybe even a violent act against a member of the tribe, are you saying that there would be no consequences for me, just suggestions?

 

Thats not what we are saying at all. Of course it would be dealt with. In fact that did happen between tribes. (probably not common within a tribe though) It is known that certain tribes didn't get along very well. But violence was not as common. And like we already discussed, it would be decided on by the tribe as a whole. And with elder wisdom.
This could be a long discussion. Because there are so many dynamics that play into this.

 

For those who think native Americans had no government http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/Our_Country_Vol_1/Learnabou_d.html

 

And so are you saying that all the native Americans of north America had a Government that was similar to the Iroquois Confederacy?

I believe that most would say that if all the tribes of north America were taken into consideration, the government of the Iroquois Confederacy would be considered an aberration rather than an example that all native Americans had a similar governmental system.

In any case I was talking, not about the Iroquois Confederacy's government but about the counsel system that was more common among the natives of the plains.

 

More than likely one of the relatives of the person you did violence to, would do violence to you, without any need for a "group suggestion" to do so. Acting as an individual that was personally offended by your actions.

Also the tribes were held together by common purpose and if an individual no longer agreed with that purpose, there would be no reason for them to continue to stay and they would leave along with those that agreed with them, forming another tribe.

 

As I understand it, individuality values self. An individualist enters into society to further his or her own interests, or at least demands the right to serve his or her own interests, without taking the interests of society into consideration.

Wouldn't a hippie value society and the environment and stuff like that? Their worldview would be outwardly focused whereas the individualist is inwardly focused. Capitalism values individuality.

Why do you think hippies value individuality?

 

To me it sounds like you're confusing selfishness, a me first attitude, with individuality.

A selfish person wishes to "further his or her own interests, or at least demands the right to serve his or her own interests, without taking the interests of society into consideration" but an individual seeks to be true to himself and others, often at the expense of his own interests.

An individual will stand up for what he believes in regardless of what it will happen to him personally and if that belief gets him in trouble with others, such as the nominal government, then so be it.

Capitalism does not value individuality, it values a herd mentality. Buy, buy, buy and then slave, slave, slave and do what you are told, so you can buy more.

It is the individual that stops and says wait a minute, I don't like where the herd is going. "Kill a commie for Christ", doesn't sound very Christian or humane. Today the killing stops with me, today the rape of the Earth stops with me and today love for the Earth and my fellow man starts with me.

 

Well said, OlderWaterBrother.

Buy less, fuck more.

 

Depends on how you look at it. They want to avoid being slaves to a government in lieu of being slaves to consumerism. Everyone is a slave to something.

Many capitalists value entrepreneurship and other forms of financial independence, but also protect the inferior actions of corporate enterprise. What I do like about many capitalists is that they want to preserve a financial environment in which individuals can dictate their own financial future.

 

I like President Obama because it is the right thing to do . He is our leader
and a good President. too. Vote for President Obama!

 

I voted no, but doesn't mean I don't pay attention. I think of it like eating oatmeal... I do it because I should, not because I necessarily like it.