atheist hell

Who's life? Who's consciousness? As I am trying to describe the mind is shared, it does not exist in isolation, this is true whether any particular individual is living or not. How much "control" do you have of your own consciousness now? Do you get tired because you choose to get tired? Don't you seem to have thoughts that arise unbidden to your mind? Do you chose your attractions?

What I am trying to suggest is both the mind and identity are abstract things.
They do not begin and end so succinctly.
I am unaware of a time when I was not save for the stories told to me about my beginnings. There was however no point when I suddenly remember "becoming".

I'm sorry that you fear that your sense of justice has been offended. I am not offering this in comparison to a religious view but am making observation of extant phenomena. My sentiments in this regard are not "religious"

I don't know Bert. When I consider a subject I take into account every possible conjugation of the descriptors involved. Unless you are very succinct in your choice of words, I will climb onto the ambiguity

Ahh. The question itself was full of assumptions which in turn stimulated the question. How can you have a discussion about consciousness continuing after death if the terms are not definitely established.

In order to measure location you need three coordinates.

 

The dead persons.

The dead persons.

I've gone through this argument with you before.

It does not matter.
I have control, you do not.

I have no idea. You do not choose for me. That being the point.

I have no idea. You do not choose for me. That being the point.

No.

People forget.

They do not have to be religious.
They do have to answer in some way the point of the thread.
I feel you have changed the argument.

And?

You can not. But none of your answers answered the point.

 

Honorable odon,

That you feel that I have changed the subject is a projection in defense of your position. I feel that we are having a conversation that is consistent in its regard to the question the purpose being to exchange our views on the subject.

It is expected that the op would experience the sensations he does on his own self reflection because of the inertia of common thought . The biological self contains awareness of millions of years of self consciousness. There are other mammalian selves, consciousnesses in this world. I postulate that the whole of awareness defines the parts, but the parts do not define the whole of it.

Self identification is an abstraction.

 

Odon:

You didn't. I'm sorry. Blame my blinding science diction.

 

No worries.

 

Personally, I don't believe Atheists go to Hell. The biggest contradiction from religious people is how God is an understanding & loving being, but the first chance they get they'll say "you're going to Hell!" If God is understanding then even Atheists could have a seat in Heaven, as long as they aren't a bad person at heart.

But, I digress, everyone has their own personal interpretations of what God is, & at the end of the day, it's all up to opinion until we actually meet the man upstairs.

Just my $0.02.

 

I think I can clear up some of this.. at least regarding what I meant in the original post. There are always things I should have mentioned when I talk about things like this.

I don't deny that this bag of skin, it's brain, mind, memories, personality, all that will die.

But that's a illusory view of myself based on interpreting the appearance of empty space surrounding my body as "nothing" which "separates" me from everything and everyone else.

The word "nothing" does not describe any aspect of existence, so it follows that what surrounds my body is not "nothing" and therefore does not really "separate" me from anything/anyone else.

We build our reality around the idea that we are separated by empty space, but we could just as easily say we are joined by it.

So in "separation" world, yes I will truly die, but in reality, I am constantly dying and being born in countless organisms because I am all life.

Does that make sense to anyone?

 

I do feel like you changed the discussion.
But If you feel you have not, fair enough.
It might have been that we were just talking about different things for a while.
I think we have cleared that up now.

I agree.

But that's a illusory view of myself based on interpreting the appearance of empty space surrounding my body as "nothing" which "separates" me from everything and everyone else.

We are porous? We are just atoms. Everything being atoms, even air, means the universe is one big link (a Deep Space Nine Reference an apt analogy, imho...)?
This is life.
What happens after death...If: this bag of skin, it's brain, mind, memories, personality, all that will die?
...or am I missing the point, and we are not even talking about after death?

 

If you dropped and broke your flashlight, would you say that electricity is dead? Or would you even say that that unique individual electricity is dead?

And if I turn on mine, then did the electricity in your broken flashlight, depart yours and travel to mine? (reincarnation) Or did it perhaps go to heaven, hell, or "nothing" world where it could continue to exist as "separate" from the electricity in my flashlight?

It's silly to talk about electricity that way isn't it. But that's how we talk about consciousness which is an effect produced just like electricity is.

I'm hoping this analogy will help. Flashlights break, electricity does not. People die, consciousness does not.

 

I understand simple english, sir. It Helps.

 

Eloquent wasn't it. You are satisfied with the observation?

 

Not really. He's worse than you.

 

he he

 

groovecookie,

Why does time only exist in consciousness?

We know already that consciousness is an effect of the body.

Is it reasonable to assume that this is in order for the body to be an effect of consciousness?

 

time is irrelavant

 

i agree in this analogy but i do not think that once you die you consciousness just travels to another person.

 

euphoriaforall

Irrelevant to what?

 

Where does it go then?

 

Why does time exist at all.. or consciousness?

Time, space, gravity, the laws of nature , they just are whatever they are. They aren't as they are because or in order for.

 

groovecookie:

You don't want to give them a meaning?

They become what they are too, change also is what it is.

That's nonsense. Consciousness is for itself at the very least. Willing is real enough.