Are women biologically programmed to reward cruelty, evil and domination?

i've never met a quarterback who wasn't also a good beer bonger.

 

Well I suppose you right. I don't mean to glorify high school at the expense of college. Certainly I had a much better experience in HS than in college. And was much more comfortable with the HS social hierarchy. My point was only that I was more ok with the prestige that quaterbacks enjoyed since it doesn't derive soley from their ability to party. They might party hard, but their status doesn't come from it. Its the difference between hedonism as the reward for skill, and rewarding hedonism as a skill. But then again maybe it is just personal. My HS didn't have try-outs for most sports. And so I got to know the jocks as people. And generally got along with them, and didn't resent them too much. I had my squabbles in my time, and perhaps have only grown fonder in hind-sight. Still as I look back on my JRHS and HS conflicts, I must now say that I was in the wrong much of the time.

But its true I mostly knew my HS peers entirely from class. So I guess I didn't have to observe their debauchery first-hand as I did in college. I suppose college is more egalitarian in that manner.

To use the analogy of French history, jocks are like the feudal knights of the middle ages. Yeah they rape and pillage, but they are glorious, chivalrous, warriors of Christendom. Richard the Lionheart. The frat boys are like the French aristocracy of Versailles, lazy, partying, debauched, snooty, petty, etc. So they are both systems of hierarchy, unearned really. But the Knight certainly gives more of the illusion of nobility than a Marquis.

But I mean you can join the football team for only the athletics. There is no "good side" of fraternities. So I would never think of joining or associating with them. So its true that frat boys were caricatures from a distance from me, while the HS jocks were guys I actually knew. So I was much more comfortable with the football players and cheerleaders of my HS over the frat boys and sorority girls of college. But then again my HS was no hometown US A school, and somewhat intellectual, bohemian and cosmopolitan. While my college was indeed Mainstreet USA, Frat U. I was pretty hard on my HS at times, when I actually had to deal with em, but we eventually made peace. There never was a detente and opening up in college. College was a pretty apocalyptic experience for me. It was like watching an end of the world orgy in Babylon. The rest of the evopsych and pessimism followed from that experience. But its not like its limited to college. I mean thats what youth culture is. And if I missed it in HS, I guess I was willfully blind. Or deluded into thinking this will pass soon.

 

Could you please clarify? Junior high age males think loving a woman makes them weak? I'm sorry to be dim, but I want to firmly grasp to what you are referring.

Indeed, there is more going on with the OP than simple self-consciousness and mistrust of the motives of girls.

You know, I was going to spend some time replying to this, but I reconsidered. If you are for real, you are young and have purposely removed yourself from humanity and relationships; two circumstances that hardly give you any perspective from which to judge either. So any time and effort I could expend in attempting to convince you of the errors and contradictions in your opinions would be utterly wasted.

Go out and develop some real adult, human relationships and get yourself out of the way before you do it.

If you are, as some here believe, a troll, any further expenditure of time and text, would again, be a waste.

However, I just couldn't let this go. As to your misogyny, it is just as I thought:

I agree, misogyny can go either way. A man can have lots of sex with women and hate them. Or, he can refuse to "lower" himself to the act. The very fact you consider sex with a woman corruption, reveals your disdain for them.

 

So his inspiration is valuable to you after all.

 

"According to PUA science"

This guy's hilarious.

 

His argument only made my case and I could not resist pointing that out. I'm imperfect, what can I say?

There is a great chance he's a troll and trolls do have some amusement value.

 

I truly hadn't noticed, you could omit this information.

Thus the value of inspiration.

 

I am not a troll. I can't really prove anything on the internet. But all I can say is these are the real problems I face. Perhaps if I told more details about my life, you would be even more convinced that no real person could be in this situation. Anyone who would waste this much time "trolling", must be pathetic enough to be pretty close to who I say I'm. And even if I was a troll, there certainly are a few enamdars out there who do suffer from this problem. And in the age of google any advice you give me, will eventually reach them.

On misogyny. A lot of the stuff I said was past tense. I was just letting you know how I developed. It is true I continue to take a negative view towards sexuality. At least in this society there is much to distrust about sexuality. Now maybe in some pure setting sex is wonderful. But in this society I think the sexual act itself is connected to misogyny.

My ideal man is immune to the lower pleasures. Sex is certainly a vulgar pleasure. There is nothing anti-woman about that.

Going back into the world and ending my isolation? I told you my reasons for withdrawing in the first place. Nothing has changed since then. I'm just so sick of the flaws of humanity. I simply can't tolerate my fellow humans. There is just so wide a gulf between us at this point.

 

Are you then your "ideal man". If so, you would be immune to the world.

 

When I was younger I did indeed aspire to reach that model. I'm not claiming I was perfect, but I did my best to live up to those high standards. I'm the closest person I met to my ideal. This is not a tribute to myself, but a lament to the state of the world. I'm certainly flawed, so it is a shame that in all my years I never met anyone better than a wretch like me. It was in college that the conflict between the ideal and the real became so sharp that it was no longer possible for me to function. But perhaps at times I did take the ascetic virtues too far to the point of monkishness.

 

The ascetic eschews the edicts of sensation, it has nothing to do with being in the world or not. If as you say, you cannot function then you are not functioning. What sort of virtue is that?

 

It doesn't matter whether you noticed or not, it was an admission of indulgence after I said I was done replying to him.

 

Look, let's just call it as it is

Hitler probably had a vagina. It's the only possible explanation

 

This much is certainly true

So, because the current herd distrusts sexuality, you do too. Interesting.

The problem is your living with some pretty twisted Victorian era ideas about sexuality. That male sexuality is innately corrupting, and women are innocent and pure until befouled by male sexuality. It doesn't sound to me at all like you are worried about the girls in the equation. You are worried about the guilt, shame and corruption inherent in you befouling some virginal girl. Or worse, the corrupting influence of sex with some girl another man has befouled.

But sex isn't like that. What makes you think the girls who found you attractive were joking? Do you think that female sexual desire is a myth? Do you think that we simply fake it in order to get nice stuff out of guys?

Your depiction of women as innocent lambs to be protected, or as prizes to be won, that you would perhaps 'earn' a good wife after a life of purity, is deeply misogynistic. It denies women of autonomy, of agency. Of our own ability to make our own choices and follow out own paths.

Sex is just sex, and yet it's also more. It's just something people do together to please one another, yet it's also the most intimate and vulnerable, open and connecting of activities 2 humans can share. It's like a good conversation, only amplified. It's beautiful and ugly, desirable and terrifying. Avoiding it on the grounds that you speak of isn't noble, it's mere cowardice.

There are in fact ways that sexuality, male and female, can be violating. When it's not mutually desired. When it's used as a weapon, or for coercion. When lies or coercion are used to gain access to it. But there's nothing inherently violating about the act.

Tell me, what pleasures are -not- vulgar? Ones that you partake of alone? How selfish. Ones that involve only the mind? Well, where does the mind end and the body begin? Can you find the line? Doesn't this conversation involve the body? Are you not seeking comfort here?

Your ideal man sounds a lonely and bitter man. Bitterness and scorn do not sound ideal, they sound hateful. Is not such bitterness, such hatred, itself quite vulgar?

There is no gulf. You Are That. The flaws you see, you see in yourself. Sexual desire? You have it. The desire to eat, to survive? You have it. Name a sin, name a flaw, and you will find it in your little retreat, sitting right beside you, all along.

It seems the only flaw in humans that does not reside in you is the capacity to love.

Yeah, I know I said I was done here... But I just couldn't stay away.

 

Well I suppose in my younger days, I had the martial virtues of the virtuous man being a complete servant of the state. The mind was relatively unimportant, and the physical development of the body was important to me.

Its true that in JRHS and HS, I may have been to sharp in my relations with girls. popular girl even called me anti-girl in 7th grade, and then later she teasingly asked me to marry her and I embarrassed her by shouting out No. As a boy I regarded girls as temptresses and distractions to what was important in life. I also regarded intellectual activities as distractions. Only developing the body and the martial virtues mattered. I was rather primitive in my ideas about honor and nobility at the time. But one can be expected from a teen boy?

My goal was to make sure that everyone saw in public that attractive popular girls would at least pretend to like me. And then rebuff any advances as proof of my high and noble character. There was a conflict between my desire for comedy and honor. Well anyway if I had told any girls my feelings, then I would have looked very foolish taking seriously their humor. It is quite possible that no girl ever really had any feelings for me, but the important thing was the perception that all the popular ones did. And anyway all the girls I liked as a teen, were not ones I had chosen, but girls that others told me I liked, and I simply accepted it. I was only interested in having the prestige of the illusion that I could have those girls, if I wanted. It was kind of Victorian, in that the ideal gentleman does not got out and pursue, that is beneath him. He is so self-evidently wonderful that they must come to him. It is dishonorable to openly say what you want and go out and get it. You have to do it obliquely and indirectly. And when it is finely offered to you, you demonstrate great chivalry by publically turning down that which a vulgar man would desire.

Important changes have taken place since then. But its not a complete about face. Many of my old values have become more refined and intellectual.

 

Um, I actually think you should keep replying for what it's worth, autumn. Damn...

 

i don't, she's talking to an ass..

 

How will he learn if he is never challenged? Should he be left alone to suffer because he's talked himself into this awful delusion? She's doing better than I could. She has a hell of a lot more patience...

 

Ha she's doing better than i could to, however why bandy words with those that can't hear or see,,...

 

Actually, this whole conversation has had an unexpected and powerful positive effect on me. In my trying to convince him of the beauty of life, I've reminded myself. That life is worth living, even when it's hard sometimes. That people are worth loving, even when they hurt you sometimes. That striving for a better world is a worthy goal, even if what I can do to achieve it is limited.

We all need to hear this sort of thing sometimes, and who better for me to hear it from then myself? Who could possibly have a greater impact on me? So, yeah... I think it's been fairly worthwhile.

Even though it's also been frustrating sometimes.