Are women biologically programmed to reward cruelty, evil and domination?

So what you're saying is that YOU possess a drive to hurt and humiliate good intentioned people. Not that MALES possess that drive.

Unless I'm rather far off, I thought that making someone feel bad because you're not interested and too lazy to tactfully explain that to them was just the sort of thing that you profess to hate in OTHER hurtful, mean people.

 

...
Ok, so women should run factories and men should fight wars. And when there are no wars, men should do... what exactly? Or should we stay in a state of perpetual warfare? I mean, I don't know about you, but one of my hopes for humanity is that we slowly move away from the desire for continuous warfare. Shrug.

But now your view is different. Women still aren't people, but now they're not all evil, sometimes they can be victims. Their purpose it to be saved by the good men like you. Oh, but only the conventionally attractive ones, the less pretty ones aren't worthy of any compassion.

Because, you know, women are only worthy of any empathy if their are being sexually exploited. And no men ever sexually exploit women who aren't hotties. You sound like you built your entire world view out of watching disney movies.

Women who are not conventionally attractive are worthy of compassion. Each person has their own life, their own ills, there own suffering. Each has their own motivations and desires. And each and every one is capable of being hurt, by you, if you treat them poorly. And each carries their own load of difficulty they might be quite thrilled if you would help them carry. And each is worthy of that, each one needs that, from someone.

Here's the thing: Women are -people-. And surprisingly enough, you do best with people when you treat them like people. With empathy. When you listen to them, and feel for them and treat them in manners they like to be treated. When you listen to them enough to do so. When you don't lie to them or manipulate them for your own 'greater goals'. And treating people well is what makes the world a better place. It's the only thing that ever has.

Sadism and sexuality are not inextricably linked. Sure we get the name for sadism from ole Marquis de Sade. But the meaning of the word is generally referring to the basic human urge to hurt other living beings, for pleasure. And I think all humans have that urge to one degree or another. And it shows up really strongly in children. And children don't really have a sex drive. But little boys still hurt other little boys. And girls hurt girls. And boy and girls hurt one another. In case you hadn't noticed, girls can be pretty sadistic too, so it is -not- just a case of male dominance. Not to mention that kids often get a kick out of being sadistic to animals. Clearly not a sexual thing.

The difficulty is that sexuality is complicated, and we live in a culture where sexuality is, on some deep level, considered bad or dirty or demonic or sinful. Disgusting and perverse. But still desired. So it gets all tangled up with impulses that have little or nothing to do with sexuality. Getting it tangled up with sadism is pretty common. They are both intense urges that we've been taught to suppress. And they've been pretty closely linked in a lot of cultural elements. It's actually kind of disturbing how often they're linked in movies and TV. Sexuality is tied up with other urges too, for many. Food for instance, gets tied in for some. The urge to be protected/nurtured is a common tie in(mommy/daddy issues). All sorts of things get tied in.

But they really actually are separate urges. And there are plenty of folks out there that don't have them all confused. Most of the guys who've piped in here, for instance, have mentioned that they are not linked for them. There is the desire to give pleasure to another human being, and the desire to be pleasured. And separately, there is in most an urge to hurt others.

Thing is, the desire to hurt is something it is noble and worthy to try to find ways to release yourself from. Suppression is probably the least effective tool, but if it's all you've got, that's better then acting on the impulse. Compassion and empathy, forgiveness and surrender are far better tools.

You have a violent, hyper-competitive worldview, have a tendency to use people for your ends, have little to no compassion for your fellow human. You are, in short, precisely what you hate about this world. The only difference being that you occasionally try, a little bit, to reduce the negative effect your selfishness and coldness and violence has on the world. It sounds like it bleeds over into other areas and still does harm, but that's ok, those are areas you don't care as much about...

There is another way to be. Violence is not the only answer. Competition is a losers game, because only one guy can actually win, and he's going to lose eventually. Cold aloofness means you never get hurt, but also means you never experience being loved.

It sounds like all those people who joked about liking you, and yes, it seems like many were at least half-way joking, were unable or unwilling to get close to you. Because there was this wall between you and them. No one can approach to find out if they -really- like you. If it is anything more then a 'well, he's kinda hot'. Because you won't let them get close. Because that would mean that you'd be taking a risk. A risk that a girl might be in a position where she could hurt you. And that notion is terrifying to you.

No wonder you're depressed. You live in a wasteland devoid of even the possibility of love. And not just romantic love, the possibility of ever feeling any real connection to another human being. Sounds terribly lonely.

 

you are not a product of your parents, yes they had sex and you were born, but it is you who makes the choice weather to live or not you can either go kill yourself or stand up and tell yourself you want to live and not be a dickhole and whine about how much you hate living, yes the economy sucks but dont give up on getting what you need to do in life, in other words make your own destiny and other things will follow. You see the world only through one specturm and if you look at the big picture the world you will see the beauty of it, God, The Creator, or whoever created us because he/she/it wants to love us and yes god or whoever does give us challenges but that does'nt mean we have to be a whiney bitch and give up

 

So according to you I was RIGHT to be wary about all those girls pretending to like me, since they WERE just joking, and I would have looked like a fool if I had went all lovey-dovey on their joking.

 

Lol. Enamdar, you are too funny. So invested in your own self-pity, suffering and self-righteousness. So deeply attached to your depression that you will find some way for anything said by anyone, ever, to be a negative.

Ok, so, flirtation is a funny thing. When you kinda have a bit of interest in someone, and you don't know if they are interested, and you're not sure how interested you are, what do you do?

Well, you could just step forward and be all 'I like you!'. This tends to make people uncomfortable, opens you up to ridicule, and can be a problem if they like you too, and then push for all kinds of stuff you're not ready for.

You can watch them from afar, never knowing, and never taking any risk. This means you are safe from both rejection and the possibility they will turn out to not be so great after all. This is the route you chose.

Or, you can take calculated risks. You can flirt. You can take steps forward to show a little interest and see what happens. If the person is -really- not interested, you have plausible deniability. So you haven't offended anyone or made anyone uncomfortable. If they're a jerk, you haven't risked much. If they're into you too, it gives you time to slowly build up an interaction, and find out more. This lets a relationship build at a slow, low-commitment pace.

Since there's so much ego and vulnerability involved with relationships, everyone's a little nervous. And some people, acting on sadistic impulse, abuse that vulnerability. Which makes everyone a little more nervous. One of the ways people deal with what makes them uncomfortable is they joke about it.

So, you see a guy, or a girl, you like a little, and you tease them lightly. You play at liking them. You make it a game. Then you gauge responses. In the process, both parties often have a little fun and get to know each other more with little risk invested. If both parties are still interested, the joking will escalate, and other little bits of interest will crop up. Depending on the people involved, the joking might go aside in favor of deep discussion. Or it might stay joking around all the way to the bedroom. Everyone's different.

If one party isn't interested, no one is too deeply invested. It's easier for the less interested party to say no, because they know there will be no hard feelings. It was just light flirtation. There's no element of 'pushiness' or neediness to it. It's better for all involved, usually.

Not the absolute best system imaginable, but it seems to be the best of a bad situation, and it's kind of the cultural norm. There are other ways people build relationships, but this seems to be the most common one.

So yeah, those girls were joking. And yeah, if you'd taken them absolutely seriously, and if they had been cruel girls, they likely would have made a fool of you. However, if you'd joked -back-, you'd have been able to have some fun. Odds are good that some of them would have changed the tone of their joking to show they weren't really interested after all. Some would have persisted and escalated some with you. And if you'd had the courage to take the steps to open yourself, and be vulnerable, you might have ended up with a gf or 2.

 

I DID joke back. I just never got so deep into any of their traps. So from whats you've said it seems it was all a set-up.

But I guess it worked out for everybody. Both sides got numerous entertainment. And even if no relations came out of it, I still benefited from the perceived social status. It made me look good when it appeared that every popular girl in the grade liked me. So I cant really complain.

They pretended to like me, I pretended I was so stupid I misunderstood them straight-out saying they liked me and I was cute.

IDK my whole JRHS and HS relation with girls were kind of weird. I mean I actually had scenes out of the Beatles, with groups of girls chasing me and me running. Some guys tried to hold me for her. It all started with one girl. And then I guess it became a fun thing for girls to do. Even ones who had previously found my antics annoying. I guess it was their sport. But later I got the same treatment in HS from girls who couldn1t possibly have known about the past. Unless every girl in the county had a conspiracy against me. Well, I guess it was all the character I had created. That wacky, crazy fool, had been my alter-ego during my shy days b4 JRHS. I guess I became my own character. I could see how it could be fun to playfully pretend to like a character who stepped right out of fiction. But I guess Ill never know how real any of it was. But it has spoiled me forever.

Shakespeare said- This fellow is wise enough to play the fool;, play the fool (He's not a natural fool, a half-wit.) And to do that well craves a kind of wit.

It takes a certain intelligence to play the fool well. And I was never happier in that role.

 

One thing I'm curious about is how you would reward domination. You can be dominated and you can resist domination. Or do you mean domination as in the sixth highest order of angels?

 

Lolwhat?

Creative interpretation: B-
Reading Comprehension: F
Persistence Stubbornness: A++

Seriously, are you even reading my posts or are you just glancing over them quickly cherry-picking things to argue with?

What about my description of flirtation, as a positive manner of getting to know someone and slowly building a space of vulnerability, translates into TRAP for you?

You really seem to still have the high school idea of women as all evil temptresses trying to lure men into doom. Trying to trap men into...what? Seriously, what? If we are trying to trap you, what is in it for us?

I mean sure, if you had pushed too hard too fast, and made things uncomfortable for people, made a fool of yourself, those girls might have made fun of you. Kids can be cruel, especially when someone does something that makes them uncomfortable. But the point of the joking wasn't some elaborate trap that you were clever enough to see through. The point was just to have some fun, with the possibility of building something more.

I mean, this was junior high school for pity sake. Sexuality is a complex and difficult thing for people and high school kids haven't got it figured out yet. So everyone's clumsy and acting foolish. But they figure it out slowly, most of them, and things work themselves out. Of course, not everyone gets over their junior high ideas about sex. For instance, you have yet to.

 

Well you clearly said the girls were just joking. That means they did not actually like me. So obviously the guy is put in a bad situation if girls are saying they like him but dont. You said the proper response is to joke back. I did. Well basically it seems like you approve of my JRHS HS actions. I had fun but didnt get trapped. IDK I guess the girls were just putting own a huge show. They would ask around about me, and send messengers to me. Maybe my character was just a fun guy to do that to. Do girls just pick random guys to pretend to like?

Maybe trap is too strong. They were just joking. Just acting. Ok, I too was playing a role. I guess the question is now that I know about PUA and just how weak and defenseless females are despite the show they put on, what did I do wrong in hindsight? I mean I knew guys treated girls as objects. But I didnt know all males were at war with females and wanted to inflict maximum pain and hurt. Girls seemed happy, I didn't know they were in hell smiling out of terror/fear. Perhaps being fooled by their phony strength was more important than being fooled by their phony love.

How could I have been so oblivious? As a male I deep down had and have the same sexual desire, to hurt, humiliate, dominate, degrade and torment females. So how could I be so blind? I completely missed it.


But perhaps I did err. I mean I didn't realize what a weak, helpless, vulnerable, humiliating position my female peers were in. If I had known of the vast power imbalance, maybe I would have acted differently.

But suppose I had known just how weak they were? How could I have corrected it? Obviously I would not have treated them as though they were equal in strength. But what else?

Perhaps they could see my nobility, and were using fake crushes to signal they needed my help. It is true I invested heavily in building up strength. But if it was help they needed, I completely missed their signals. It was their false strength that deceived me.

You read my posts on my history with females. What are your thoughts? What did I do wrong?

 

Sigh. I very clearly said that many of the girls were probably at least half-joking. This fairly clearly also implies that some of them were at least part-serious. And that's what flirting is. It's seeing someone you maybe kinda might have an interest in, then kinda joking with him/her about it as a way to break the ice. It's not pretending to like, it's playing a game. One that you obviously totally missed.

And still with the trapped. Trapped into what, sex? Oh the horror.

Ok, so you think maybe trap is too strong. Still confused where the idea comes from, but we'll move on. No, it is -not- a 'role'. It's not acting, it's flirting. Look it up some time. Silly boy.

AAAHHHH! Waitwaitwaitwhut?

Boy, you have some odd ideas. You read a bunch of PUA crap and decide that women are helpless? Wtf, dude. You have some serious logical fails all throughout this thread, but this tops the charts.

So, women are living in fear and terror of men, and that is why they are evil seductresses who lure men into vile sinful sex with them, sex that is inherently hurtful and debasing to them. And that is why they fear men. And the reason they act like they want sex, and act so happy to see their bfs is because...um... Oh yeah! We're biologically programmed to reward cruelty! It'z da programmin, it wazn't meeeee!

Seriously, you need to sit down and talk to some real live women. Go to a coffee shop. Heck, go to a rave. Get the hell out of your basement and try meeting people.

Actually, if you really have such a strong desire to hurt and degrade women, you need to either seek counseling or hunt out your nearest bdsm group. This urge is -not- normal. It is not the basic sex drive of your average male.

 

I think your exaggerating what I said. My point was that in my readings and dealings with girls in HS and JRHS, I didn't realize how weak and powerless they were. I dealt with them too firmly not realizing how fragile they were. I was deceived by them. They projected strength, independence and happiness they certainly did not possess. I couldn't see beneath their forced smiles, into how miserable and terrified they were.

So obviously I should have behaved differently. Not exactly sure how. It seems a more active paternalistic role was necessary. This is all in the past, cant be changed. But might as well explore it to better know myself.

I guess my main realization now is that women rewarding evil is one sign of the cruel nature of existence. And yet when I had a part in this world, I was terrified of ever doing anything nice for a girl.

Well then after that I was entirely ignored. Well during the Fiasco before Frat U,it was one of the few girls there who was sad I was leaving. I really hated college life and the whole modern culture norms.

But I mean its true. When I had my chance to do good in the world, I did none. Now I'm shoved out of the world and can only mourn.

Where do I go from here?

 

Emotionally speaking, women are no more weak and fragile than men. We do tend to be more emotionally responsive than men, but that actually makes us likely to be more resilient and bounce back quicker. However, like all human beings, we are vulnerable to people hurting us. We're also taught to be extra vulnerable, open and trusting compared to men, but that varies by the individual.

Odds are good they weren't miserable or terrified. Just living life, some good days and some bad. Sometimes with a forced smile but likely much of the time being honestly friendly. Paternalistic attitudes are insulting and stupid, and will tend to piss a lot of people off.

Again, women are no more likely to reward evil then men. You have yourself convinced of this nonsense, but it simply is not true.

The PUA guys went out and tried to find what would work best to convince women to have sex with them. They did experiments semi-scientifically. They discovered girls like it when: A guy works on their appearance, even to the point of being 'pretty'. A guy shows them some respect, but doesn't fawn over them or act awestruck, doesn't drool or act pathetic. A guy shows them attention. A guy draws them out and listens to what they have to say. A guy waits until some interest has been shown before showing much interest, isn't pushy. A guy builds a space of comfort and safety. A guy is funny and/or witty.

I other words, if a guy comes off calm, confident, respectful and attentive, it really increases his chances of impressing a girl. And yeah, some guys fake it. And some girls buy it. Why? Is it because girls are weak and vulnerable? Well, not more so than men, as these would work on guys pretty well too. Is it because girls are stupid?

Maybe it's because many girls, especially ones out at a club, actually really just want to get laid. And they have all this societal bs that is telling them to be careful, to protect their sexuality, to not be slutty, not be too easy. And they're really just looking for an excuse because when it comes down to it, most women want sex just as much as men do.

We might be more picky about it. We might have a million little things we do to slow things down so we can try and figure if this is a guy we actually want to be having sex with. But really? We want sex. Most of us? With men. And given the right guy in the right circumstances, most women would be up for a one-night stand. They might feel guilty about it later because they've swallowed the same noxious poison about sex you have, but that doesn't mean they don't want to have sex with -someone-.

 

You weren't shoved out of the world. You ran away. The world is still there, ready and waiting to take you back in any time you have the guts to deal with it. Deal with all the fucked up baggage we all have, along with our clumsy and foolish but plentiful love.

Where do you go from here? Anywhere you want. What is it you want?

 

Btw, paternalistic, chivalric attitudes are a pretty central aspect of misogyny. And again, are elements of, and strong contributors to, a lot of the damage that exists in the world.

 

What do you think of the possible theory that the reason so many girls chased me in JR & HS was because they saw my strength and noble character and were trying to ask for my help? Perhaps they neither liked me nor were making fun of me. Not exactly sure what I could have done. But if that was their signal, I missed it entirely. They were trying to ask for my assistance. And I was ignorant of it. I thought I could treat girls like one of the guys.

 

I think it's delusional. Girls do not go running to some random guy they don't know, en masse, for some sort of protection. This is more delusional egotism on your part.

Likely you were cute and popular and therefor someone to flirt with. Semi-serious, mostly just for the fun of it, assuming you'd enjoy it too. Some likely thought more of you, some less. Some might have been into going out with you if you'd shown any interest too. Instead you stayed aloof, the 'Prince of Hypocrisy'. From what you've said you likely didn't hurt anyone too much.

It was playful, not really serious nor malicious. and certainly not a mass cry for help(seriously, where do you come up with this?). Don't make so much of it.

 

How could they be playful if they were suffering in hell?

I was told that people saw girls hanging campaign pictures of me in their locker when I ran for HS office.

So we know for sure they didn't like me romantically. And they were far too weak & feeble to be seriously trying to challenge me. So what else can it be?

Its in the past, whats the point? The point is that I failed to do good when I had the chance. I just didnt see how low they were.

But I am nothing now. There is nothing I can do in the world.

So what do I do? How do I deal with such a cruel world?

 

What's the point? The point is you are delusional. What the blazes do you mean they were suffering in hell? I mean, high school is rough, but I'd hardly call it hell. Girls do not, as a rule, live a tortured existence. I have no idea wher you get these bizarre notions.

You are nothing now? Sheesh. Get the fuck over yourself and grow up and get out there and do something. Alas, cruel world! Yeah, this world can be tough. Yeah it can be harsh. Welcome to life. Time to grow up and start learning to deal with it.

Life can also be wonderful, be beautiful. You just have to be open to that. But somewhere along the line you learned to spit on everything wonderful and pleasant in life. Learned to call all the things that make life worth living 'base and vulgar', because they were of the flesh. Well, let me tell you: life is of the flesh. All of it. If it's the vulgar flesh that bothers you, your only solution is suicide.

Barring that, you could maybe, just maybe, consider actually opening your mind a touch. Maybe considering ideas outside your banal and frankly disturbed worldview. I mean, I've listened to you go on about your personal worldview for days now, and I can see why you are so depressed.

See, stuff happens. This stuff has no connotation, no meaning, no significance. It just happens. Then a person comes along and experiences it, and it mixes with their worldview and they give it significance. Different worldviews create different significance and these affect the experience.

Your worldview is one in which all the sources of happiness are actually terrible, sinful and evil. Only the things which produce pain and suffering are holy and good. I might be exaggerating a little, but it's mostly true. So you live a tortured existence and are filled with the desire to hurt and torment others.

Try a different worldview. Maybe, just maybe, all your beliefs are wrong. Maybe they are twisted perversions of reality that you picked up piecemeal along the way and formed into your own very personal Hell. So... Change them. What the hell do you have to lose?

 

Autumn addressed your misunderstanding of flirting...

But to clarify some reasons:

People flirt for fun. There are many people who flirt with EVERYONE, they're not really interested in everyone, they just enjoy flirting, people generally enjoy interaction, and assume you do as well. Even if they didn't give a shit about you, there are many people who would flirt. It has nothing to do with needing your help.

In fact, flirting is the LAST way most people would look for help. What lead you to the conclusion these people where all terrafied and whatnot beneath their smiles? That you WANTED them to be terrafied, looking for the white knight, you, to sweep them up onto your horse and ride over the endzone with them sidesaddle, finially saved from the mean, bad, scary world of female high school drama around them?

To clarify, i realize quarterbacks stand in one place and do nothing, do not cross the endzone, and that horses are usually not involved in high school football. I was being colorful.

 

Just to clarify-
I DO know what flirting is. I just had and have my doubts that those girls were indeed flirting with me or if it were all a scheme. One thing is certain I was NOT misreading them being over-friendly. They SAID they liked me, romantically. I took it all to be an act and was probably right.

Also my point was, back then it never crossed my mind that they might have been asking for my help. I regret that. I was ignorant to the extent of the sheer misery of the female condition. Didn't see just how weak their position was. Now that I know more about the terror of female life, I think it is quite likely.