Are vegetarians 'healthier' than meat eaters?

Fractual - I am very aware of all the facts you presented here. Good job with the research. I certainly won't argue with you that a meat eaters diet is better for than the environment than that of a vegetarian. I've known this for many years.

The point is this

I don't look someone who wears leather shoes and tell them, ya know, you really out to consider wearing canvas like me.

I also don't hold my nose in the air to people who drive around in cars that get worse gas mileage than mine. (though I do automatically assume that anyone who drives a Hummer is a complete asshole )

The fact is at the end of the day, my occasionaly binge on a steak and cheese sub really isn't that big of a deal. And if you started spouting off crap like that while I'm eating that sandwich, I'm most likely going to tell you shut the fuck up

 

The vegetarianism would end world hunger argument is laughably stupid.

About 2/3 of the worlds land is unsuitable for agriculture... It is primarily the open range, desert and mountainous areas that provide food to grazing animals and that land is currently being put to good use.

Its naive to think that this land could be readily converted to agriculture.

Grazing animals also have a symbiotic relationship with agriculture, and provide much needed food and shelter.

In the United States people can afford the luxury if living on a vegeterian diet, but thats simply impossible for the third world. Meat provides essential nutrients that destitute population can't afford to supplement through vitamins and eating pounds of spinach a day.

Furthermore, the problem with world hunger today isn't that there isn't enough food... theres enough food on earth to feed everyone.... the problem is its not properly allocated.

If you were simplistic you might think we'lll why don't we just give starving people food... but the fact is that the problem is in the lack of infrastructure their...

We can't deliver food halfway across the world because the cost of shipping and refridgerating enough food would be astronomical for just one trip.

The theres distribution...

Most places that are starving in the third world don't have adequate roads or markets to distribute the food, and would spoil quikly even if we did find a way to bear the extrodinary cost.

They have water and the sun... do you think these people are retarted or something? You don't nessecarily get more bang for you're buck eating plant. Protein in soy doesn't absorb nearly as efficiently as in meat.

Livestock also contributes very havily to agriculture.

If you're going to be a vegetarian, its fine if you don't wanna eat animal.

But world hunger is a very complex issue, and I'm going to bitch slap the next person who says 'Let them eat tofu'.

 

Let them eat tofu!

 

i am not saying it would end world hunger, i dont know if it would, im not even saying ending world hunger would necesarily be a good thing either, perhaps ending the people who we cannot feed would be a more appropriate solution and leave at least a portion of this earth untouched and not totally controlled by man...

it does seem like it plays a pretty big factor when it comes to famine though considering the resources and money we eat up just to create a pound of beef though, therefore sordove making it selfish in another way, theres better things to be done i think than to satisfy a tastebud craving.

also, what are these nutrients you guys keep talking about? what is in meat that is so good for me? and does it really bear enough importance to weigh out the toxins that come with regular non-organic meat? it doesnt say on the package so i am sordove confused about it since i assume every meat source is a little different?

 

I do think that there are a lot of people out there who over-eat meat. we don't need it in every meal, hell, we don't need meat every day. In a lot of different times in the past, meat was a treat, a rarity and was only consumed once or twice a week (if that, in more desperate times). I do think that some meats have protein and other nutritive elements in them (ie the really good fatty acids in fish) that can be very hard to replace with a no-meat diet.

I tried being veg (plus fish, so not really vegetarian but I forget the word) a while ago. It's expensive and hard to do when you're poor or unwilling to travel very far to get good-quality veggies etc. It's a fine choice for other people - so long as they are sure they're getting the vitamins etc. they need. Just don't try and force it on other people.

 

Huh? Wow...

I don't know if thats more naive or sadistic.

But as I pointed out above, there enough food here to sustain the third world... theres just no good way to get it to them.

Producing more crops here wouldn't be a good thing... it would just artificially deflate the price of crops we export perpetuating poverty in the third world...

Its already happening... we produce too much produce here, mainly because of farm subsidies.

What the hell is a toxin? Tell me scientifically and provide evidence of its existence. Prove that 'organic meat' is better for you.

B12 cannot be obtained from vegan products.

It all has parts of animal in it...

Theres no such thing as a toxin... you just made it up.

 

AAAAAgh!!!!!!

I'd never bitchslap you though trout, you're worth too much to me alive.

 

"A toxin is a substance that causes injury to the health of a living thing on contact or absorption, typically by interacting with biological macromolecules such as enzymes and receptors. The term is usually reserved for naturally produced substances that kill rapidly in small quantities, such as the bacterial proteins that cause tetanus and botulism. The word "toxic" is used more loosely and often applied to non-biological materials, as in "toxic waste" and "toxicology."

(from wikipedia)

Toxins can exist in any food though. I've gotten food poisoning from a salad before (probably cross-contamination, but still, it happens)


wheeeeee searching for word definitions is fun

 

Oh right, a point I had meant to make earlier... in times of great famine, people end up eating people (especially in historic times. Ok, almost exclusively in historic times, back before writing etc. had come about). So, if you don't meet your food requirements, bodies will even start trying to eat one another. Our bodies are designed to consume meat, incorporating a little meat is good for your body (from a purely biological perspective. I do understand the whole ethical stance, especially with chickens [poor little caged buggers who never see light and aren't allowed to walk], but they're soooooooooo tasty)

 

Can you prove that bacteria is more present in organic meat then non organic meat.

My point is most people who use the term toxin don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Not he used the wide sweeping term toxin, instead of saying botulism... everyone knows all meat doesn't have botulsim.

But if you claim organic foods have less toxins, you're using a scientific word in an astoundingly non scientific way. I've never seen anyone who claims this even remotley attempt to document it based on credible research...

They just like throwing the term toxin around.

 

Either way... I think its a little late for meat talk. I'm going to go get better acquainted with my pillow. :H

 

Here's a thought:

We're talking about what's "natural" for humans to eat, right?
Well, how the hell could FISH be natural for humans to eat? We had to have been walking the earth for a LONG time before we ever got near to having the ability to harvest fish from the SEA. That came after we could manage to actually "FISH." I'd be damned if we are "naturally" supposed to eat LOBSTER, considering we couldn't get NEAR a lobster for probably thousands of years!

What about squid (calamari) and octopus? How did primitive man, back when mankind's digestive system was evolving to what it would be, get a hold of lobster, squid and octopi?

How do you explain that?


-Jeffrey

 

Perhaps organic cows wear diapers? Or they poop ready-to-eat salad..

That would be impossible. There is no cure for botulism, if you get it, you die. So don't eat those bulging cans of beans, children!

It's a fun word. Toxin, toxin, toxin.

 

Well.......humans have superior brains (although, yes, many are questionable ) right?
So it is NATURAL for humans to use tools, or we would die.
What's a fishing pole? What's a spear or harpoon? A net? TOOLS.
Also, what about free-diving? We don't know if primitive man could swim. Obviously we started doing that sometime.....

Perhaps these sea creatures once lived closer to shore as well.......