Are any of you not vegetarians?

i'd say the less you support the corporate mafia at that one voting booth that is always counted, the cash register, the better, otherwise, eating meat and not eating meat are both perfectly healthy and natural. it takes a little more working at it to get all the balance of protiens and the rest of it from vegies alone, but it CAN be done.

accepting the gift of another creature's life to sustain your own ought not to be disrespected or taken for granted, but that doesn't mean it has to be rejected out of hand either.

humans, monkeys, bears, pigs, and probably a few other genera of life forms, we evolved to eat damd near anything that don't eat us first. there are, as hinted at, a certain degree of environmental indifference in the board rooms of agrabussiness conglomerates. but you're neighborhood organic farmer can't afford to be, and generally isn't. and even the corporate agribizzdroids are often finding out the hard way they can't really afford to either.

but yes, favoring local producers over big names from over the horizon is generally better for the earth. if only because less distance their produce is transported, the less combustion used to propell that transportation.

plus this IS where there is something positive to the personal side of it.

=^^=
.../\...

 

Obviously man the statistics can't all be bullshit. Because in order for a rumor to get started it must have truth to be based off of. An statistics can't really be twisted into something else. They're just too damn precise man. Now I myself am not a vegan or a vegetarian, but I do respect them for what they're about man. There is one major plant that I dig real well an that is marijuana. So peace, love, an' enjoy the smoke man.

 

No, statistics are complete bullshit. I could probably find you a thousand different and contradictory statistics about being a vegetarian.

I agree with HHB. Eat what you want, and base your dietary plan on logic and instict, and not some ridiculous ideological concerns. I know some vegetarians who feel much better without eating meat... and man, good for them. I also know some vegetarians who look like they've been starving in a cave for the last year.

I won't even get into being a vegan, that's just plain ridiculous in my opinion.

All of the people who are doing this for ideoligical reasons are missing the big picture... the consumption of meat is not the problem, the extreme modern American consumption of shitty meat is the problem. You should direct your efforts towards encouraging more organic farming and less Burger King. Even that won't happen though, so honestly... the only solution is to reduce the human population.

You also must understand that these animals you are saving have been so genetically manipulated and fucked up in every way by humans that their chances of surviving without humans are not too big.

I personally LOVE meat.

 

ahhh the dumbing down has got indy.. it doesnt matter how false a statement is,, if its written down by a organization it must be true..

well indy hippy if you took the time to read my posts you would see the stats posted in this thread are bogus. not only are they bogus,there so far over the top only a blind sheep would believe them..


baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

It seems like as much as people wanted to say these statistics aren’t true they didn't actually look into them...

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=environment



http://www.environment.no/templates/themepage____2688.aspx



http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/3372



http://www.ciwf.org/publications/reports/The_Global_Benefits_of_Eating_Less_Meat.pdf



So You' re an Environmentalist ... Why Are You Still Eating Meat?" by Jim Motavalli



http://www.bayweekly.com/year05/issuexiii1/earthtalkxiii1.html



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3559542.stm




etc, etc, etc, etc


These statistics aren’t bullshit. Maybe before claiming so you should find some SCIENTIFIC studies? done by people with Ph. D ‘s over long periods of time? or should we just…. accept what you… a unqualified person is telling us about our world or country as a whole…? not just one farm? Your not arguing against the statistics your just saying basically we like meat, so its good, and we know this one farm or these couple farms… that are hugely in the minority … that we think are pretty cool and we don’t know we didn’t do any testing but we are pretty darn sure these couple of places don’t do that so shove it. Ignorance…. I guess its just really aggravating to hear so many people argue these statistics aren’t true because of small examples of them not being true. As a whole they most defiantly are true and your sending wrong messages to possibly impressionable people. Eating any meat that you didn’t see raised day by day so you know it was a totally sustainable process, or that isn’t from a farm proven (as in testing? water samples? soil samples? … if all that is even reliably possible) or any large or even medium amount is environmentally unethical there’s no argument it’s a proven theory. Could we eat meat and be environmentally sound? Yes your right, with a lower population because on a meat diet the earth can support less people and yes WITH FAR LOWER intake. But that wasn’t at all what the statistics were about, not some meat including Utopia they were about our general world and where it stands. Not one place, or 100 places but the whole. To say they aren’t true is ridiculous.

 

its in a book it must be true..

i am using hands on experience,,.. i know what i am saying is fact..

until someone comes forward to challenge me who has hands on experience as i do i stand by my statements..

thats whats wrong with society today,they read it in a book and take it as fact..

once again,i am speaking from hands on experience,not from what i read in a book..

so please by all means go live on a farm for a year and do your own calculations..

or better yet attempt to get a cow to drink 150,000 gallons of water in a year..

bullshit......

 

oops that was meant to be a 1,500,000 gallons of water a year,, silly hhb ...
now as to all the links so kindly provided by sparkling honey,,, the top three are all on methane n gases etc,, this was not disputed any where in the thread,,,,,
the ciwf was mostly an all around improvement plan for agriculture in general... again not disputed,,.... the bay weekly article states 2500 gallons of water per pound,,, far different numbers than original poster and higher even ,,, although those are feed lot animals n raised on no forage and nothing but what is fed them... again,, also was stated above that hhb also had issue with factory farms,, however,, that was not what the thread was originally about.... so he did not go there,,, the last article goes into water issues,,, we know there are water issues .... we live with water issues and lack of it on a day to day basis,,,,
once again folks ,,, git ya shit straight,,, yun's cant even go a 5 page thread without having several differing views on water consumption of an animal.... for gods sake.... live it go see for yourself... stop taking the BS as fact, test it yourself n then take it from there,, oh wait that would require too much work on your parts wouldnt it,,, would have to haul them millions of gallons of water to them all,,, shit dang at those numbers a poor chicken would drink approximately 7500 gallons of water in there 6- 8 months on earth or 4500 or,,, lets keep on scouring the net,, i am sure we can find something even more outrageous somewhere n then post it as fact...

n btw.. i have been on farms for 37 years, worked on test farms(this does not mean i agree with them) managed the farms, have approximately 100 class hours in agricultural studies, worked with vets, worked with cornell and there comrades,,, and traveled throughout the us with various organizations and companies doing case studies working on improvements , etc etc etc,,,,, what have you done to actually improve the knowledge you have on it,,,, besides read?????????

 

Hey, just dropping in. Here's my 2 cents.

Screw statistics, screw being too idealogical. What about being realistic? What about being PRACTICAL? Maybe it doesn't matter to you if ya live in the city and all your associates are also veggies, but a FARMER who lives in the country is better off being flexible. I used to be a "strict" vegetarian (4 years) and in that time I realized that if I was at someone's home and they were going to feed me, I didn't like creating a big "oh my gosh, what do I have that you can eat???!!!" problem. I realized that if you were "on the road" and you were hungry, you should eat what was available. It's called survival. Or if you were living in the woods, or if you didn't have the money or the foodstamps to get your "special" diet...... And on a farm there are always going to be "extra" roosters or bucks or rams or bulls......... So what do ya do with those extras? Sell 'em at a loss to somebody else who will eat them anyhow? Or what if the deer are eating your garden up? Guess you'd just have to starve then, right? When you are hungry, food IS. That's all. I think for someone who can afford whatever they want, it's more important to stay away from processed white bullshit food and stick to whole wheat and brown, stay away from unnatural. If you are healthy, a little meat ain't gonna hurt you.

 

Earthmother makes a very good point.

All vegetarianism really is is a luxury. Try to go to a 3rd world country and tell them that you're a vegetarian. You'll get laughed at or beaten up... depends on how hungry they are.

 

Note the number of folks over age 30 who responded to this thread. As far as I can tell, we all eat meat, that should tell you something.

My wife was in the Peace Corps in a third world country down in South America, where much of her work involved keeping their live stock healthy. Try telling those people to give up eating meat, ain't gonna happen.

 

oh so the link that was posted says 2500 gallons per pound..

lets do some math shall we?

a 2 year old cow will yield approximately 1000 pounds of processed meat..

2,500 X 1,000 =2,500,000 lets be generous and say the processing uses,, oh something crazy like 100,000 gallons of water.

so we take 2,400,000 divide that by 730 =3287.

thats 3287 gallons of water per day that the cow would have to consume,,even if a slaughter house was to use 100,000 gallons..

mind you the average household uses less than 5000 gallons a month..

so this seems factual to you???

also,for the record subsidy programs give farmers extra money for their crops, as well as guarantee a price floor.they do not keep the price of a product down.they at times keeps prices stable,however they do not make a product 30 dollars a pound cheaper.

i am done with this thread.. if one chooses not to use the analytical part of there brain,, its there loss..

really is sad how "educated" people are so unwilling to use logic and think for themselves.. they would rather read a book and believe it to be fact..

enron had books everyone was lead to believe as fact.. the bush administration had a huge book of facts on iraq that everyone believed..Al gores movie for gods sake.. the bbc found a lot of that to be false...

ya see,, not everything in print that is written by someone of authority is true..

people really should learn to think for themselves.. the world would be better off..

goodbye thread...

 

growing the crops??/ well then the vegans are just as wasteful when it comes to water now are they not?? the same exact crops go into animal feed as does that that humans consume..



most farmers use silage,meaning the crop is cut and stored without processing,so there would be no water used there...

so lets say corn, a 10x10 area would produce adequate silage for a full grown cow per day..

we have established that there is a 3000 gallon discrepancy.. so lets say corn grows 90 days to harvest..

that comes out to 33 gallons a day being put on a 10x10 area..

i defy you to find a crop that would survive putting 10 gallons a day on a 10x10 area much less 33..

so for the skeptics,by all means mark out a 10x10 area and proceed to put 30 gallons of water a day on it. tell me what you have after a week.. much less 90 days.

nice try...

i only replied because me and dilli have already discussed this.

now im done with this thread for real.

 

Obviously there are older vegetarians, and that's a personal choice I can respect, provided they can respect my choice to eat meat, and not give me this holier than thou attitude, like I'm some kinda barbarian or murderer or something. My point was that folks who are older tend to be less judgemental and more accepting.

Just like I try to avoid eating veggies with GMO's, I try to be conscious of where my meat comes from, and how the live stock were treated. Surely the quality of the meat is determined to some extent by the quality of the animal's life. Not that I don't eat at truck stops in a pinch myself.

 

I think a bit of "education" might change the way people eat. Or not. Try telling a 5 year old where hamburger comes from. Try telling a city folk what chickens eat or where an egg REALLY comes from...
My first daughter, heck, ALL my kids, were fed vegetarian until they were old enough to know what meat WAS. I just didn't feel right forcing something like eating meat on someone who didn't understand what it was... Then they made their choices based on real knowledge. They ALL eventually decided to eat meat. Altho my FIRST daughter had to go thru the process of helping butcher a chicken for HER first non veggie meal, and she decided to be a vegetarian for much longer than the others...

But it should always be about making an informed choice, not wasting anything you are responsible for - especially a life, not creating problems for others because of your choices. These things are what makes it honorable...

HHB, thanks fer the rant. I hate "facts-n-figures" when folks use 'em as weapons against each other... Too much room for error...

 

In the end all it boils down to is that every person is different in their own way man. Some cats enjoy smokin' weed all the time like myself. Some cats can't stand the thought of eatin' meat. Some can't bring themselves to lay off the meat a lil more. Some cut themselves 'cause they're depressed or want attention.

BUT YOU SHOULDN'T JUDGE OTHERS BASED ON THEIR IDEALS....

If you do that then you are no better than the nearest too religious idiot in the state. Diversity is like a rainbow man, a big tye dye rainbow. It lights up the sky an' shows us wonders we'd have never dreamed of before in our lives man.

Be what you want man, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else in a negative way. Sit down consider the choices of your life an' see what of those choices best suits you in a positive manner man. Peace, love, an' joy to all my cats out there who're tryin' to live their lives this way. I salute you....

 

Ive always been underweight & had trouble keeping my weight up, so that has sort of kept me from being a vegetarian. However most meat disgusts me, i only eat chicken and fish, so no im not a vegetarian.

 

Are you talking about respiratory CO2? If so where does the carbon originate? If you are talikng about food miles, the same argument applies to fruit and veg.

Are you talking about water in the form of rainfall on land that is not arable or irrigation water? Did you know it takes between 3700 litres and 5000 litres of irrigation water to grow 1kg of rice? It takes 200 litres of irrigation water to grow 1kg of oranges?

Not necessarily. Eat free range meat.See my journal for more information.

I thought you are currently 39.:tongue: It is alright I am 47.

Could you tell me more?

I could make you minestrone soup using homemade chicken or beef stock and you would close your eyes with pleasure while consuming it. BTW how are you dealing with your depression?

Actually the Global Warming Swindle doco was from Channel 4. Otherwise I agree with everything you say.

The trouble with the way so many peoples' thinking is tunnel vision thinking. To look for confirmation evidence is classic crap argument.

 

I'm a wishywashy lacto-ovo veggie, meaning I eat meat on occasion, I usually don't enjoy it. I'm not so much a meat is muder veggie, i just don't like it, it think it tastes kinds grubby. I also think we were made to be vegan, we dont have meat eater teeth and our digestive system does not handle them well. Lactos and ovos are pretty perverse too, (cow titty milk? Drinking human titty milk would be considered deviant and obscene and human rights would never allow us to farm it, but locking up cows and squeezing out their mother's milk for human consumption am I the only one that notices that even though other creatures eat meat there doesn't seem to be much consuming of other species boob juice in the wild) well I try to put those thoughts out of my head when I pig out on crepes and whiten my coffee with half and half.