Are Americans Racist?

So it seems the causes are social/societal indeed, in the sense they were triggered by changes in economy and industry and the impact that had on society, rather than it is a racial matter in any other way than that it were mainly blacks who were kept as slaves (which on itself also was not because they were black in the first place but because of what whiteys projected onto them).

 

[SIZE=11pt]Nerd [/SIZE]

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[SIZE=11pt]I’m not ignoring it I’m trying to work out why you have interpreted it the way you have. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]As I’ve said you seem to have a prejudiced view which you have then gone out to ‘prove’.[/SIZE]

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[SIZE=11pt]Are these people your friends have you talked to them about it? [/SIZE]

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[SIZE=11pt]Something should always balance statistics, for a start personal knowledge and experience can be a good filter, there is a saying much loved by Mark Twain “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Never ever just accept a statistic without question or thought as you seem to be suggesting. [/SIZE]

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[SIZE=11pt]So you haven’t really associated with any black people since school? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Have you any friends that happen to be black, have you had work mates that were black, have you had a black boss, if having a party at your home would black people be on the guest list? [/SIZE]

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[SIZE=11pt]I’ve met hundreds, thousands of people that happen to be black, they’ve come from all walks of life, backgrounds and countries, some I’ve known as colleagues some as acquaintances some I’ve not got on with others have been my friends. I’ve met them as labourers, in offices and in academia and my experience of them is no different from the ones I’ve had with the white or asian people I’ve met over the years. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]So when someone like you claims that black people are inferior to whiter groups in intelligence and offers up such interpretations of statistics I filter it through my own empirical data and it just doesn’t fit, especially when someone like you goes on to present some cock and bull pseudo-scientific eugenical garbage as a ‘proof’.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]It seems that you had a racially based conclusion and you went out and found the racial conclusion you wanted. I’m trying to work out why you came to that racially based conclusion in the first place. [/SIZE]

 

Nerd

Actually you sound more like a right wing libertarian than someone that leans to the left, I mean I’ve heard all this crap about been “left on social issues” from a number of people that turned out to be very much on the right.

And this rubbish about ‘dependency’, ‘independence’, bad government and ‘incentivising’ people into work, is all stuff that dribbles out of the mouths of right wing libertarians on a regular basis.

But the issue here is race.

[SIZE=11.5pt]Here is something from Sicard de Plauzoles an early advocate of eugenics (or social hygiene) - “the lower classes, the poorer classes, have a much higher birth rate than upper, richer classes…and children of poorer classes compared to children of the richer classes show an inferiority of physical, intellectual and moral development”[/SIZE]

This view was extend to differing races where those races existed, with many racial groups been seen as inferior to whites, it was an argument put forward by many slavery advocate in the US who claimed that black people were inferior in intellect and morals to whites and that is why they were good ‘beasts of burden’ and should be slaves.

A lot of the concerns of eugenics advocates was that an increase in the number of the inferior poorer classes (or inferior races) would undermine their power, the ‘inferior’ might demand to have a greater slice of the pie, bring in taxes, they might force through reform that limited the power of the ‘superior’ (or white) elite. They might seek freedom from slavery or ask for decent wages.

In a way that is what happened those ‘inferiors’ organised themselves into unions and political groupings and they agitated and fought for more power the vote and better conditions and they undermined the power of the ‘superior’ establishments. And what happened is that those ‘inferiors’ became us, or many of us.

Oh and one of the things that was fought for was welfare

[SIZE=11pt]It seems to me that many of those that attack welfare and bandy around such words as ‘dependency’ and ‘incentive’ are really just like those people who wanted to think of themselves as 'superior’ in earlier times. [/SIZE]

 

Balbus once again, you present no data. Your entire argument is one of moral outrage. Present some evidence broham, let's stick to the facts and not work exceedingly hard to try to insert various motives into each other's heads.

You completely and utterly fail at engaging with the facts. If you think my interpretation is flawed, give me your interpretation of the poorest white people and asian people outperforming wealthy black people on tests which are designed to predict economic success. If the high scorers go on to achieve economic success, are we to put measures in place to hold those people back? We have...

http://rs36.pbsrc.com/albums/e22/PrimitiveScrewhead1973/Boston%20Bruins/bears_repeating.gif~c200 (won't let me use img ext, that sucks)

East Asians - Twins per 1,000 births - less than 4[SIZE=13.63636302948px], average age when first walking ~13 months[/SIZE]
Europeans - [SIZE=13.63636302948px]Twins per 1,000 births - ~8[/SIZE][SIZE=13.63636302948px], average age when first walking ~12 months[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]Africans - [/SIZE][SIZE=13.63636302948px]Twins per 1,000 births - ~16, average age when first walking ~11 months[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]the same pattern rears its head in the way of gestation periods, age of crawling, and onset of puberty[/SIZE]

http://www.jbhe.com/...sions-test.html
But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board's 2005 data on the SAT:
• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.
• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.
• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.

 

[SIZE=11pt]Nerd[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]So let me get this right you [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]haven’t associated with any black people since school? They were intelligent and fine but you believe they were exceptions, flukes and that the majority of black people are more stupid than whiter people. BUT you don’t happen to have any friends that happen to be black, have never had any work mates that were black, never had a black boss, don’t really talk with black people and basically haven’t mixed with black people in much of any way for many years? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Is that about right? [/SIZE]

 

You are the least scientifically minded person ever, lol. Are you totally incapable of seeing the forrest for the trees? Do you think radical Islam is not a problem because there are some examples of good Muslims?

There are four black guys I would call friends, and they would call me a friend. Ari, Sharif, Shawn, and Roland. It's been maybe 6 months since we hung out. When we did hang out, we smoked weed and played video games. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but after months of it, it got old. I tried to steer conversations into philosophical and intellectual directions and the response, puzzled stares. I personally know of one example for sure that involved theft by one of them. I know that two of them at least are still connected to, I guess one could say "hood" elements in their circle of friends in another city. That is to say robbing when profitable opportunities present themselves with local bookies, and dealing drugs.

P.S. I've also had an iphone stolen at the park by a black person. I know because I was the only white person there.

 

Curiosity is enough to experiment. Fact is I have found myself shitting in unfamiliar social situations like what suited for public facilities in some countries or areas. I think the knee jerk reaction displayed here to the idea is example of cultural taboo at the subliminal level. People observe animals defecating on practically a daily basis. Not that I am proposing shitting somewhere just to see where it lands because obviously we can count on gravity to make it's appropriate contribution.

 

Avoiding jail is nice too.

I used to party at a frat house that had no door on the bathroom. Consenting adults, you know.

 

I'm about to ditch you for the same reason dude. That is on the philosophical plane you are a lot like porifera. You are not the only white person anywhere. The fact that you think you are a special white person makes you fundamentally an idiot as though your head were filled with meringue having no yolk in common humanity. We are biological creature and your ideas are abstractions about life and come from an immature standpoint, not an integrated understanding of life by definition or practice.

I would be happy for you to persuade me otherwise in your own words. I think your use of statistics is entirely self serving as they never make you equal to any. It is not necessary to be greater than the greatest only to be equal to it. The greater good of man is demonstrated by the man who finds himself equal to greatness in all situations. The impotent man finds himself always in contention.

 

I think abolishing jail would be nicer for all involved if for no other reason than it excuses us from having to be ultimately hypocritical with our care. We employ "authorities" for the simple fact we are unwilling as individuals to encounter or relate to what we consider uncivil behavior and this really leaves us devoid of the ability to reasonably deal with these kind of social issues to the point that we think it requires brutal responses and we are willing to put up with brutality in the name of civil order. Every vicious dog is at some point an impressionable puppy. Our current attitudes on brutality reflect childhood lessons of mistrust frankly perpetrated by confused and unaware parents. I think that the population explosion specifically is a mental health issue and due to volumes a runaway problem whose only solution will be population crash. There is nothing to be done on a world side scale and everything to be achieved in learning of our own ability to be satisfied in life to the point that we can truly assist others in their own struggle.

 

Even though this seems so to me too:

I don't think we as society have developed a justice system solely for this reason:

The simple fact you state may be true, but it is not the only reason we let criminals be trialed by a court or put serial murderers behind bars. How for instance would you reasonably deal with an utterly unreasonable serial killer. And I really mean unreasonable here

 

I know you weren't asking me but I have a thought to share about this since i recently saw several people declare islam in general is a problem because of the example that there are radical islamists/muslims. To me it seems radical islam is a problem because of radical muslims, not because of islam in general or good muslims. Islam on itself isn't radical or extremist, it is the people who act radical on their extremists mindsets (whatever triggered them). By the way, not sure about you, but I don't think this is a racial issue either.

 

Do you offer another?

Where does unreasonable exist? I know what you really mean. I suggest the remedy is in doing something different now that our future may in fact be different ongoing. The big difference could be had in trusting our own recognizance in dealing with any situation. Right now we are institutionally captured from the youngest age and it is in first the undoing of cultural mind training. It is truly a type of post hypnotic suggestion. This takes effort toward the desired aim or commitment to honest results in your own life using yourself as the the test subject. This is not the route for the dependent and it is generally private and unassuming. That is you can't look to anything outside yourself as substitute for your own honest investment. You can't find in the world on occasion any comfort coming from those around you and in the clear light you see that you wouldn't want it from them in their state anyway.

 

I don't either and I have a lot more sympathy for people with immutable characteristics than I do for people embracing ideologically destructive dogma. Anyone who takes the Koran OR the Bible seriously is bound to barbaric practices, and the extent of the barbarism scales directly in proportion to level of fundamentalism. It just so happens that Christianity has undergone a reformation, not to mention the example of Jesus was that of a hippie who was crucified while the example of Muhammed was that of a conquering warlord. Just as the black people you find in nice neighborhoods will represent nice people, and the black people you see in the ghetto represent an extraordinarily high proportion of criminal behavior... the Muslims you find in Westernized countries will be much less fundamentalist than the ones you might meet in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine. I mean look at these Pew polls. All these countries are over 60% in favor of stoning for adultery, and death for apostasy. In many cases well over 80%. Talk about not ready for democracy.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

 

Pretty much any dogma has the potential to be destructive. I know that people who take the koran or bible seriously (not the same as taking it literally) are not bound to barbaric principles just like that (by definition). I think the term barbaric and on who it was applied even stems from a mainly christian outlook It all depends on the person. I agree if a person is raised in a certain region there is more chance they adapt the cultural/locally prevailing point of view.

 

No no no no. culturally, locally my ass. Ayaan Hirsi Ali's director would not have been brutally murdered for a local view. She and Salman Rushdie would not need permanent security for a culturally held view. Danish and French cartoonists would never have been slaughtered were it not for a widespread, faith based doctrine that rises in violent opposition to any criticism, anywhere in the world. Thou shalt not charicature the prophet. If you do it we will kill you.

Enough about potential to be destructive, where is it actually being destructive?

Now this may very well be a zionist plot outlined by Albert Pike in his plan for 3 world wars, but the polls say the Muslims are falling for it. I know for damn sure the Shia and Sunni are maiming and torturing each other in Iraq for religious grievances. idk mannnnn I've seen too many hoaxes on mainstream news taken seriously to feel like I can trust any of these sources anymore. Kuwaiti incubator babies, 9/11, boston bombing, 7/7, Charlie Hebdo, Sandy Hook, carbon taxes.

 

You mean Theo van Gogh? I don't think he was murdered just because of that dogma. Same with other terrorist attacks, there is usually a motive other than just an obligation out of a holy book.

Really? I thought they were in conflict because when one is in power they are aggrieving the other economically, socially etc. etc. It is the same with the original rebellion against Assad. Just because religion is used as an excuse does not mean the reason they do not want to stop troubling eachother is because of more worldly reasons. If they could leave those past them they could both have their own specific kind of the same religion. Kind of like how protestants and catholics can now live in peace with eachother.

 

I don't have another developed justice system to offer. That is exactly why I would say we can not abolish the jail system just like that. I understand what you are saying and I am personally all for going in that direction, but it is like KarenJ said about my idea about changing the economic system. it is a really ideological thought.
We can not abolish the jail system we have now, right away, and let the people who were sentenced for atrocities free.

 

It is more than ideology if practiced on a personal basis. Truly to say that we are dependent on the current system to maintain order then that is exactly what you get which is a far cry from depending on the inherent nobility and care of the free person. What is practical is what we in fact practice at. In the u.s. the incarceration of a prison population has become profitable business. There is nothing to keep one from personally turning their back on the system and acting according to their own wisdom. That is the wonderful thing about personal recognizance is that is flies under the radar. It doesn't overtly challenge authority because they got nothing the free man wants.

 

Yes. Some are, some aren't. The question really should be are humans racist?