Are Americans Racist?

Yeah I think it's useful to have a consistent compass... a solid foundation.

 

Well no, you offered a specific which never represents a statistic or vice versa as though it were proof of something other than you think your daughters could beat him in a debate.and I wonder what you think it is.
As you said fact, what statistical fact does it represent other than you interpret the data as cause for yourself to feel pride of accomplishment?

 

But we do learn at an early age that some behaviors are appropriate in some situations and not in others. The first one is that certain things are only done in a bathroom with the door closed. That doesn't make you a hypocrite.

It is logical to make use of the established fact that there are other factors in play in the world other than pure logic. The most logical guy in an organization almost never ends up on top. The top guy sees the greater complexities of human interaction. Who wants to spend his or her entire life being a tool in the hand of somebody who doesn't really care about you?

The guy who never thinks on a broader level is doomed to focus on many projects that have little chance of going anywhere other than the bottom drawer of a dusty filing cabinet, unless he's being directed by someone who is more in touch. Of course, what I'm saying here doesn't apply to some highly specialized fields of scientific research.

It's a standard thing for younger people to focus on their strong areas, getting as much out of them as possible. At some point, you more or less max that out, and shift more of your attention to working on your weak areas. It doesn't happen at the same age for everybody.

People growing up in poor minority families are never around people who talk this way. They have no background knowledge in such nuances. It's part of the glass ceiling. That's why education has to change the culture.

The kind of facts and figures you present here are only of use to education professionals, who need to constantly assess how their efforts can be targeted for maximum benefit. The idea of writing off certain groups just isn't going to fly in today's world.

Umm... pretty much. I don't see how you can ask others to give you rights that you don't offer them in return. That rarely goes well.

 

meh, so what........
still proud of my girls and how incredible they are, don't have to qualify that to anyone.




and I'm positive they would smear nerd in a debate on this topic, but neither the topic nor nerd are really worth wasting serious time on.
I have discussed this very topic and nerds assertions with them both, as I do many topics that get discussed here, their reactions were essentially LOL.

Not all of us live with the conditions you enjoy that provides you endless hours to devote to such meandering bullshit as the nerd continues to put forth.

 

I'm just going to recap some of the more salient points that this thread has surfaced.

http://www.jbhe.com/...sions-test.html
But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board's 2005 data on the SAT:
• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.
• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.
• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.


The widening intelligence gaps as predicted by Dr. William Shockley in 1974 by reference to census data that made clear the following

(5.4) children per uneducated Black Woman v (1.9) children per college educated Black Woman
[SIZE=13.63636302948px](3.5) children per uneducated White Woman v (2.3) children per college educated White Woman[/SIZE]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAszZr3SkEs

A man too logical for his time. I'm grateful to anyone who might be able to retrieve legitimate data countering this trend and its repercussions.

To my eye these are the repercussions. This is not a throwaway point. These are college students, at a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP debate who are rapping and depending entirely on emotion. None of the organizers care to remedy this flawed process because that would be racist. They keep getting voted to the next round because to vote against them and their method of "debate" would be racist. What the FUCK is happening, seriously?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmO-ziHU_D8

 

Nerd

As I keep pointing out you seem to have begun with an idea based in prejudice - that black people are inferior to whiter people - then gone out to try and find anything that would seem to back up your view.

You have a theory on the development of whiter races that doesn’t seem to stand up to scientific scrutiny but fit your viewpoint and some sets of statistics that you have interpreted in a way that fits in with what you already think.

But let’s begin empirically - I’ve known and meet many black people over the years, I’ve had them as bosses and work colleges (labouring, clerical and managerial). I’ve studied with them, protested with them, had them round to eat, gone out drinking with them and a whole load more, and I really haven’t seen any difference in them as anyone else I’ve meet – they were human- oh other than that they have different coloured skin. What I have found out is that many of them have suffer a lot more from discrimination than I or other whiter people do.

So when people make broad statements about supposed black inferiority I run this past my own experience and wonder why they are saying it.

Are you saying that every black person you’ve ever meet was in your view stupid and aggressively violent? If not why do you think black people as a group must be?

**

PS - I'd suggest to people as a good read[SIZE=11pt] - Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie [/SIZE]

 

I'm saying the averages are more powerful than the exceptions. I'm saying this stat

(5.4) children per uneducated Black Woman v (1.9) children per college educated Black Woman
[SIZE=13.63636302948px](3.5) children per uneducated White Woman v (2.3) children per college educated White Woman[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]is widening the gap that already exists.[/SIZE]


"Are you saying that every black person you’ve ever meet was in your view stupid and aggressively violent? If not why do you think black people as a group must be?"

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]I never said anything close to that. I've dated two black girls. They grew up in nice families and they were nice girls. One was really smart. There ARE exceptions to the rule. I've also played a lot of basketball at the park. I've driven through ghettos near my house. I've seen violence. I've seen lots and lots of little kids from mothers on welfare who keep having kids. The state of ghettos and an uneducated, illogical populace is the direct result of this widening gap in intelligence. It's a direct result of the unintelligent having lots of kids, and the educated having very few kids.[/SIZE]

I stated a few posts ago, I grew up in a family that never talked about race. I was not indoctrinated, I was not brainwashed. Until the Trayvon case, and more convincingly the Mike Brown case this was not an important topic to me. I never investigated the matter. What I saw as I started paying attention was large groups of people blindly following a racial narrative, led by the mainstream media. People are told to assume Darren Wilson is motivated by racist tendencies. That George Zimmerman is a white racist, not a Hispanic man who grew up with black people. That Crystal "Murderer" Mangum was the victim of racist rapists on the Duke Lacrosse team. That Tawana Brawley was savagely raped by six white men.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSYy44jluq0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqt9OX-oAtU

 

Compare and contrast the treatment of these white potential rapists to this black potential rapist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTebhdRvS64

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5zrdf3PnmY

Rape stats. These numbers are purposefully obscured. I know that's hard for many of you to believe.

 

Right, you spend your time how you choose has nothing whatever to do with how I arrange mine, nor do I believe you are at any sort of disadvantage in having the time to say whatever the hell you want to whoever you want. That's pretty rich claiming not to have time when you in fact take the time. I have time to challenge your b.s. as well.

I don't find people anywhere as racist as I do find them cliqueish, territorial, and cave dwelling and in this case full of elitist crap about how you and yours are better than him or his.

 

And in doing so nerdanderthal you are not citing an accurate statistic. You are citing a 40 year old guess and projection that has nothing to do with current statistics. If you are in fact being honest in your intellectual presentation then you must throw this claim out. It is not true and to keep saying it doesn't make it truer. Put up or shut up boy.

 

What is a potential rapist? I am positive you qualify as having human potentials. You may be intelligent but you aren't very savvy about the world. This lack of practical experience shows on your reasoning. Taxonomical classification is not based on compare and contrast. I can take compare and contrast and make you look like a fool. I pointed out for example that the flynn effect contradicts your position that intelligence is deteriorating. Maybe you didn't put two and two together or maybe you are simply ignoring the contrary evidence I have provided. Either way your argument is shown seriously lacking of genuine intellectual merit at this point.

 

Nerd

That is an incredibly telling statement

So it’s only that you think the vast majority of black people are stupid and violent (did you tell this to your girlfriends?) If you thought and think black people are so inferior why did you date some black women? Was it some type of power thing, because I can’t see why with that attitude you’d do that?

Where your team members black? Where those team members being violent why were they been violent?

Your basing your views on black people from some drive past them in your car?

How have you seen this? Do you know these people intimately enough that you know all this? What are you basing this on?

That is right out of the pseudo-scientific Social Darwinist and eugenics play list going back to the 1930’s.

You grew up in the US and never talked about race? I grew up in Britain and the issue was discussed a lot in the media and so came up at home. Again it seems very telling that to you and your family it was a non subject.

I just had friends who happened to be black who I talked to.

 

To what benefit exactly do you think that this is taught? We learn many things that are perhaps not well considered.

 

Poor word choice, I meant suspected rapist. I've seen Flynn's work and it's not convincing at all. He himself gives a very half-hearted, feigned response at one point that essentially says, yes dygenics is real, but it's not the end of the world. I'll look up the video if you insist. In the meanwhile, help me understand how the intellectual and economic gap between blacks and whites will not increase considering this data which I don't think you've addressed.

http://www.jbhe.com/...sions-test.html
But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board's 2005 data on the SAT:
• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.
• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.
• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.

 

1. I never said vast majority of black people are stupid and violent. You said that. As I said already, I never thought much about race until the Mike Brown case. I was fascinated by the amount of lying and parroting of misinformation that was going on and I took a stand against it. I dated these girls a few years back, before I took an interest in genetic differences. I've never been a racist, I've always been data based, and I hold no hate in my heart. They were beautiful girls and I'm not against dating women of any race currently, either. You want to paint me as a racist, I just want to bring facts to light and stop the misinformation.

2. Yes I've had lots and lots of black team members. I've played basketball my whole life. In a pickup setting, and you will find this going anywhere in the US, black people tend to pass to each other as much as possible. I don't know if you're familiar with basketball, but if you talk to asian kids, or latino kids, or white kids, or even many black kids, everyone knows it. If you're on a team with 3 black guys and 2 white guys, the black guys, when they're not ball hogging are passing the ball back and forth and trying to be a one man show while the all white team looks like the Hoosiers. It's just a fact that holds true 90% of the time and if you talk to ball players they will tell you.

Yes the black players are by far the most violent of anyone out on the court. They trash talk the most and after a couple games of trash talking it's fairly likely that a fight will break out. Neither side wants to back down and the testosterone is raging. I've seen many fights on the court. It's stupid and irrational and I don't get it, I always try to play peacemaker and make it clear how stupid it is. Sometimes playing peacemaker works, sometimes it's in vain. No one is suffering from hip hop culture more than black people just as no one is suffering from Muslim culture like Muslims. (see Iraq, Shia v Sunni)(see ghettos, anywhere)

3. Not basing my views on circumstancial evidence, but rather noticing extremely poor moms walking around with 5 or 6 or more kids.

4. The daycare would cost a lot more than a low paying job pays. Often welfare pays a lot more than a low paying job pays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pCOTlYPn0U

5. This is highly speculative, I grant you, but it's quite likely that the Classical Greeks had an average IQ of 120 or so. Definitely higher than today. This dysgenics phenomenon has been taking place long before the 1930's.

6. My best friend 1st - 4th grade was a black girl named Metika. We were the best at basketball in the class and the smartest in the class. This little snippet of personal experience solidified in my mind an egalitarian viewpoint. Certainly it showed there were exceptions and that no individual should be judged by their appearance or genetics. As I grew older and started taking honors classes and more and more asian and european faces surrounded me I never questioned the egalitarian perspective that had been instilled in me. It was simply a fluke. A fluke, despite the evidence that the parent - child IQ correlation is "about .45 for children and about .75 during and after adolescence.[9] A 2004 meta-analysis of reports in Current Directions in Psychological Science gave an overall estimate of around .85 for 18-year-olds and older." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

 

So what have you seen of "flynns work" and why would it be necessary to convince you? Are you operating on the level of belief? I have shown where shockleys figures do not coincide with today's measurements, period. There is no flaw in the thesis that income difference explains any gap in sat scores. There are just many reasons there is a difference, further what difference does it make if the demographic trend continues? You are focusing much ado about nothing of any social relevance for humanity as a whole. Sats are standards for college admissions and are not general intelligence tests to begin with.

 

Nerd

You have several times just go back and look, I mean we could all quote you if you want – you’ve said time and again that black people are less intelligent than whiter people and that makes them more likely to be violent.

You are not against dating black girls even though you think black people are inferior and less intelligent that whiter people?

Actually you are coming across as a bit creepy – I mean you are not talking about been friends with black people only of not caring about ‘dating’ black girls, wouldn't you want them to be your friends first and wouldn’t you want to mingle with their friends some of whom would likely be black?

And how would you do that honestly while thinking black people as a race were inferiors with limited intelligence and a propensity for violence?

Where they your friends? I ask because what you go on to say doesn’t sound like they were your friends – you seem to say you think they are violent, racist and selfish. And that all white teams are better and look like the Hoosiers

So let’s see you had a black friend from around 6-10 years old and two black girlfriends later and they had been intelligent and nice but as a whole you haven’t had much contact with black people nor have many black friends and now you think black people are dumber than whiter people and more likely to be violent?

Or are you saying you now realise that Metika was inferior to you as a white person? [SIZE=11pt]What about her perants as your best friend you must have had contact did you think them stupid and violent? [/SIZE]Also you had a black person as your best friend, but you never heard anything about race or racism etc in the whole time you knew her?


*


PS Sorry this bit seems a bit bizarre

Speculative to the point of insanity, I mean what the fuck are you basing even the idea of this on?

 

Balbus,

"[SIZE=11.8181819915771px] you’ve said time and again that black people are less intelligent than whiter people and that makes them more likely to be violent." I would agree with that, as a statistical analysis. That's much different than your dishonest leap to "vast majority of black people are stupid and violent" can you see the difference or are you mentally incapable? I think more likely you're misquoting intentionally. Stick to actual quotes and you will be less guilty of disingenuous misrepresentation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.8181819915771px]You haven't challenged any of the statistics I've presented. Again and again you fall into a pattern of focusing on your personal experience or that of others. To what extent do you think statistical analysis trumps anecdotal experience in terms of representing reality? I think you're not suited for a factual debate until you're able to orientate yourself in a scientifically minded direction.[/SIZE]

In the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.

In the United States in 2006, 32,443 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.

Sup with that?

http://www.jbhe.com/...sions-test.html
But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board's 2005 data on the SAT:
• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.
• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.
• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.

Sup with that?

Low SAT scores at the very least make it near impossible to achieve any economic success, and economic success or lack thereof is one of the best predictors of criminal behavior, and violence. Am I wrong in my interpretation of the data? Balbus can you dispute the data?

 

Nerd


So you are saying that in your opinion statistically speaking the majority of black people are less intelligent than white people and that makes them more likely to be violent?

I’m trying to work out how that fits in with the empirical evidence of your own experience with black people - so far you have mentioned a pre-teen best friend and that you have dated two black women. All of whom you seem to think were intelligent (and presumably not violent).

But you also say these are ‘flukes’ or ‘exceptions’ and that for you the ‘rule’ is for black people to be unintelligent and violent. So are you saying that every other black person you have ever got to know has been unintelligent and violent?

Do you have any black friends? Do you tell them that you think they are part of a group that you believe is unintelligent and violent?

 

Balbus,

I see you totally refuse to acknowledge any of the data. A wise play, sir. lol

How the statistics fit in with my own experience... well at the courts I see a hugely disproportionate level of trash talking leading to violence from black people. This is beside the point though, your mistake is expecting that, or requiring that our personal experience and statistical analysis match each other.

The girls I met were in school. They were smart enough to have not flunked the SAT horribly. They were the minority of the minority that was genetically blessed enough to be smarter than your average cookie. Around 15% of black people have an IQ over 100. If you associate with those black people you will likely find rational individuals who can provide for themselves economically. Sadly these girls were only children, anecdotally reinforcing what I've said previously... successful black parents tend to have fewer kids.

The black guys at the park, many of whom likely flunked the SAT horribly or never took it in the first place are the kinds of people these statistics INCLUDE. The girls who spend their whole lives in the hood having babies and collecting welfare checks are INCLUDED in the statistics I'm referencing. These are the people having the most babies. These are the people you continue to ignore.