Anyone Else Like This? / Help Fix Me!

Imagination is just like anything else, if you use it, it gets stronger, if you don't, it gets weaker. Most people develop a vivid imagination during childhood, and then start to lose it as the get older.

I used to be just like you described, and it really bothered me as I had all sorts of intellectual pictures in my head (described by words) but could never close my eyes and 'picture' something.

The way I got around that was simply by doing it... Close your eyes, think of a cube (intellectually), its square, equal on all sides etc... and try to build a picture of the cube in your mind using the facts.

It is difficult to start, but the only way it will get easier is if you practice.

I have no problems closing my eyes now and picturing fully detailed images, to the point that (as an example) I can design a complete building in my mind including the systems that are included, before ever putting pen to paper.

Something else that helped a lot was playing with google sketch up, it gives you the ability to translate ideas into images step by step.

 

I'll have to try that thing with the cube. How long did it take you of practicing before you could actually start to see the cube? I tried it a couple times and just continued to see black.

 

years and years...

 

maybe you are just using the word "see" too literally. when i close my eyes, all i really see is black, or bright light shining through to make dark orange, or patterns if i press lightly on my eyes.
the only time i'd ever say i could "see" things with my eyes closed was on psychedelics.

but i can imagine stuff. not quite as much detail as a blueprint or anything, but i can imagine my house or car and describe what it looks like.
but i agree with the guy you linked first
"Imagine a red square. Can you see it? I can't. I know intellectually what a red square is made of, but I can't see it unless one is in front of me."
i agree with most of what he says really.

but i dont' think i have any condition.

you should try tripping if you ever want to.



really, i think we are just too hung up on the words. seeing. i think visualize is better.

and i can do that pretty much just as good with my eyes open as i can closed. imagining something isn't seeing it.

maybe my standards are too high because i have "seen" stuff with my eyes closed on drugs

 

That's a little bit on the discouraging side...

 

Okay then, 5 minutes after you start, it should all magically fix itself with no more effort needed...

 

I just mean, I imagine (ha) that one would start to doubt the effectiveness of an exercise after trying it for years without seeing any sign of improvement..

 

Very little that's worth doing will come easy.... I know all too well the discouragement of confronting a challenge that will be a long term commitment to overcome- had a few of those in my life- but realizing any measure of success in those battles is particularly satisfying.

The culture is just WAY too geared to expecting instant gratification and seeking quick fixes.

Good luck.

 

I certainly didn't expect a quick fix; especially for something like this. It just doesn't seem like it'd take such a long time. Weeks and weeks or maybe a few months seems reasonable. Years seems ridiculous though.

 

no thoughts on my post, wiseman?

 

I've always had a real problem understanding how a person can say they want to learn something, and then dismiss (or belittle) an idea on the basis of how long it may take.

What does it matter if it take a 5 minute exercise or take 100 years of study? Either you want to learn it or you don't.

I can't tell you how long it will take YOU to get YOUR mind working the way YOU say YOU want it.

I have no clue if you will practice this for 30 seconds every month or 12 hours a day, I don't know what your ability to grasp new concepts is, I don't even know IF you have the ability to grasp new things and if you do, if you are capable of grasping this. There is absolutely ZERO possibility anyone can tell you how long it will take.

So, when you ask how long, you are asking an impossible question to answer.

You want to know what is truly discouraging? That your responses are pretty typical for most of humanity....

 

When one is immersed in a culture that champions instant answers and cultivates impatience it isn't so hard to understand. What used to require years of effort and hard work (hyperactivity) to overcome is now treated with a pill. Feeling a bit sad? Here's a pill... trouble concentrating? another pill... who says you can't have it all? here's a credit card- ring up that debt!

I think collectively we're being conditioned to turn to outside answers to deal with issues better handled the "hard way". Hell- I wouldn't be at all surprised that a drug were being formulated to "cure" immaturity or shallowness.

I'm not saying Wiseman necessarily fits this but the reaction to your time factor reflects something he likely shares with many people. I'd much rather encourage him to continue to think for himself and to seek out the more challenging ways of dealing with problems. Reacting with sarcasm and belittling his gut reaction to what was a very good answer can only close him off from what you have to say.

A time span characterized as "years and years" is going to be more daunting to someone who's 17 than someone in our shoes. I vividly recall thinking how ideal life would be if I could just get past my own stumbling blocks... anger issues, depression, etc... and at that stage I wouldn't have been so open to long term prospects. Of course it wasn't until I got mostly through my 30's that it began to dawn on me that the point in life wasn't waiting until I got past my own issues... the point in fact INCLUDES the process of getting past them.. that in figuring out strategies for casting out personal demons and compensating for the individual challenges like the OP's issues with visualization we gain more from life... FAR more than if we fell into life without any challenges, quirks, and borderline disabilities.

Decades ago I'd have given my right arm to find a quick cure for my own issues but looking back, I'm damned happy I didn't find one because I'm far better off for having found answers on my own and stuck with strategies for the long haul.

 

I see it as an advantage. Often I'm thinking about something else too much to focus on what's happening there and then. You get the full pleasure out of every second of life. Be happy

 

unless you can jump inside someone else's head and compare your mind to theirs, you have no way of knowing if yours is different in any way.

it's pretty impossible to describe a thought process with words, so don't let them get to your head. i think, for the most part, everyone's head works the same way.

 

I understand and agree with this... except for one aspect of it.

I have no problems with any type of quick cure that works... We have very few of them though we have lots of things that can disguise the symptoms though.

If there was a pill that would make a person problems go away I would be all for it, seems there isn't, you look for another solution.

When I realized that this was a skill that I kept having a need for and didn't have, I worked on it until I did. I didn't set out and say to myself, okay self, here comes a path that will last years and years before you gain any real skill in it...

I just did it as I went about my daily life and one day I actually could vividly imagine actual images. I still work on doing it. It was the reason I mentioned using sketchup as an aid to it, because thats why I love using it. It helps me 'build' mental images that I can the 'see' in my head....

There was nobody that said to me, try these things, do this, for that long, in this manner and you will get the result.

As for my manner of responding...

I discarded about 1000 different responses for;

and settled on my answer as the best possible response out of them all.

 

Yeah, I was convinced for a little while that I was just like everyone else, and that it was just a difference in speech and diction intention. But everyone who I've talked to describes something far different than what I would describe in trying to explain my thought process or whatever.

Haha. I was just short on time and for some reason, I thought your post would take longer to respond to then the one that I replied to. Sorry bout that

Listen.
I understand that you're trying to help, and I really do appreciate it.
I think you misunderstand. I hope I don't come across as disrespectful, because that is not my intention.
I fully understand that a lot of things take a ton of effort to even get anywhere, but you have to understand that there are a lot of things that don't. Riding a bike, a lot of people take quite a while to get anywhere. But there also a few people that are riding after a very short time. For all either of us know, your visualization exercise that took you years and years to develop could be near instantaneous for someone else to pick up.

As for that excerpt in your post, yes, it sounds ridiculous out of context. Look at it in the original post though. It's pretty obvious that by 'that thing with the cube', I was referencing the exercise.
As for the 'I tried it a couple times' thing, I don't think you see the perspective that I'm looking at it from. You've introduced some completely new concept to me. For all I knew, it could take just one time of doing it to begin to develop the ability, or it could take millions and millions of times of trying to actually see some success. I went with the first instead of the latter based on the fact that I've read a book on the subject of visualization. In the book, it mentioned a list of several exercises to do [with a partner] if you aren't getting any images. And it is mentioned that many of these methods can be successful fairly quickly. http://www.winwenger.com/isbackup.htm

As Stinkfoot mentioned, I'm not much more then a stupid 17 year old.

I have to ask though, would you consider your life to be better or worse (or neutral) since you've gained the ability to visualize?

 

It's a skill, always a good thing to have.

 

Yeah, that's what I figured. Seems like there are all kinds of different ways you could use it. I've just read somewhere (I think) that it's a skill that we're better off without, so I thought someone who has experience both visualization and a lack of would be good to ask.

Is reading fiction books any different for you?