an email i got today~ please read

The prayers that were said in public schools were common prayers that were said together like the 'our Father" right? After that they'd sing thier national anthem, sit down and carry on with the day. Even though it probably meant nothing to most of the kids, it offered a strong and solid prayer to our Creator and many adults today have it memorized because of the repitition. Maybe in thier hardest times they have prayed those words with open hearts and sincerely seeking GOd's help.


But the prayers said in the private, intimate quietness alone with God are the ones that matter most. Those are the ones we truly mean and spill out of our hearts....whether we are articulate or not, whether we know the right words to say or not. His arms and ears are always open.

 

the gospels say "You worship the Father with your lips but your hearts are far from Him", but by your explanation that's exactly what the system was teaching kids to do.

I really wasn't asking for a lesson on the meaning of prayer seahorse, just looking for a straight answer to my question, which you seem to be dodging.

 

ahem, yes i said something along that lines, i dont think i was quite clear with my point then...

most christains will say that praying is public isnt bad, as long as you dont do it to show off, however, it is MY belief that Jesus was not jst speaking about the "show off" prays of the Pharasees, but of all prayer in gerneral...thats why i added that bit about Jesus going off by his lonesome in the garden during passover...

im sorry if i wasnt clear before, but what you have said is almost the opposite of what i meant

yeah, looing back, that last sentnce of mie was probobly a little confusing...

 

Another quote:

"Mt 5:45 "That you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust." (parallel in Lk 6:35)


source: http://people.ucsc.edu/~mgrivich/JesussTeachingsAboutGodTheFather.htm

 

Petition the Lord ?

 

Maybe learn to listen to the self ?
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102848&highlight=fine+noise


Peace

 

why do people attack christians so much? I can't see anything wrong with Jesus's teachings. They don't promote violence or cruelty or anything negative whatsoever. Jesus taught forgiveness, love, patience, joy and PEACE. Sadly, humans seem to be naturally defective and so twisted the faith and christianity became a 'religion' in which stuff was taken out of context for whatever anyone wanted to do-eg.having slaves, oppresing women and racial discrimination. This is NOT the teaching of Jesus, but the doings of people who used the bible to back up stuff they wanted to do whether it be good or bad. I'm talking about back in history when christianity was the main religion that everyone was expected to follow, which i personally think was a stupid idea. forcing people to be part of a religious group when they don't beleive in that sort of stuff is wrong. I just thought i'd make that point because so many people mix the religion up with the faith and relationship with Jesus and God, which is a slightly different thing.

 

RE:
Quote:
there's obviously a difference between beating your kids and spanking them. I think Anne Graham was referring more to the undisciplined children. God does not want us to BEAT anyone!

Tell the Jesus Freaks that - "spare the rod and spoil th'child. Now lets gives th'chile a whoopin - so's I kin go back t'watching NASCAWR."

RE: BUt it is necessary to have a strong yet loving hand with our children, as to raise them to respect authority. That's not hard to agree with, is it.

You do not need to, nor should you - attempt to mold a developing personality and character by threat, physical harm or bullying. Spanking is abusive. How about I take you over my knee and hurt you because it is my belief that you are wrong and that I am helping you?

RE: I too thought it was unneccessary to mention the suicide in the email. Not all undisciplined kids will kill themselves. Maybe even some discplined kids will end thier own lives. Who knows?

Well it was a heartless and lying attack. Lying comes naturally to Christians. They fold their hands in prayer and say it's a good thing to bomb Iraq cause of WMDs or, good to cheat and swindle money out of gullible people to create multimillion dollar empires, or what have you.

RE: perhaps the most self - righteous of the bunch do. BUt we all have to stand before God one day.

According to the Bible you could be the Dalai Lama and be burned and tortured forever - yet Torquemada, one of the most sadistic people ever (albeit a Christian) is "saved" and therefore in heaven, laughing at those who are screaming in agony. (Yes, laughing. Read Revelations.)

RE: Christian or not, we all throw too many stones and dont pay enough attention to our own faults and large amount of room for improvement.

Amen.

 

RE: why do people attack christians so much? I can't see anything wrong with Jesus's teachings.

Come to America you will rapidly find out why. Jesus Incorprorated, a division of the Republican Whitey party, is a hideous invention that has no relationship to the words of the carpenter of Nazareth. It's a place where adulterers cheat every weekend but are saved by the blood of the Lamb but yet homosexuals deserve to die. Where it is a total and utter sin to be gay according to Leviticus but yet shellfish eating, just as condemned by Leviticus, is OK.

Where church pastors tell you who to vote for.

Where they harass you daily and tell people who aren't in their church they're evil and hellbound. Where people brag about the amenities of their churches "ours has bowling lanes!" "ours has an Olympic swimming pool!"

See what you think is a football stadium but is actually a mega-church, complete with politically involved and approved pastors who spend the entire time exhorting war, the beating of children and how much Hillary Clinton will burn in hell for daring to be a strong woman.

 

God, in your example, is much like one of our parients, right? And being a parient, with us being his children, he know's what is best for us, right? (heck, someone that can build the universe must know a thing or two).

Now any good parient with a child that is going down the wrong route, even if the child does not like it, the parient will do everything they can to help that child, because they love the child, and no matter how much that child tells them to stop, etc... they are going to do what's needed.

Surely god, being the ultimate parient, know's what's best for us, but not only that, is able to DO what's best for us, such as stop terrorists from flying planes into buildings. Surely, no matter how much we ask for him to leave, he should look after us - he loves us, no?

BUT!!!

A place did fly into a building, people are dieing everyday due to starvation, and, well - shit happens?

WHY?

because there is no god. Or he is such an asshole and bad parient that he does not care about us (therefore we should not pay him any respect)




When secularists ask for *religon* (not god, but religion) to get out of schools and government, etc.. it's to make the world a fairer place for people to pratice ALL religions, and not be forced by the government to pratice what they tell you!

 

sorry if i seem to be dodging your question but i thought i answered you to the best of my ability.


Saying the Our Father at school every morning offered a bit of hope, purpose, and unity. The intentions were good, werent they? They werent trying to hurt anyone.

i suppose you are right, they should have skipped the prayer in unison and went around the classroom so everyone could talk to God outloud in front of thier peers, the kids would have liked that alot better.

 

if this is your idea of "christian" living, that is really sad and i'm sorry.

thats your opinion if you think spanking is abusive. I think it's necessary sometimes. Do you have kids? if so, hows that no-spanking thing going? If you dont, lets touch on this subject again when you do. I have 3 boys under 10 and i dont spank them alot, but when i do they learn from it and they know i mean serious business, and i always back up punishment with love and an explanation as to why i was so angry and why it was so important to me to discipline them harshly. It's always for thier own good and thankfully they are pretty good boys and it doesnt happen alot around here.

wow you need to be exposed to Christians who actually love Christ and His teachings. These kind of people you describe are just the kind that the Lord confronted on a regular basis.

God is our judge. It's not for us to say who's saved and who's not. Who's in heaven and who's not. God knows our hearts. We should all take the plank out of our own eye before we try and take the speck out of someone else's eye.

so glad we could agree on something. cheers to that.

 

i've heard it called both. Keep picking at me all you want.

 

RE: RE: Saying the Our Father at school every morning offered a bit of hope, purpose, and unity. The intentions were good, werent they? They werent trying to hurt anyone.

I'm sure you would have no problems with your kids doing the five times daily Islamic prayers or praying to idols in the interests of good intentions, hope and purpose. Oh, over your dead body, right? Good morning! Thanks for waking up and smelling the coffee.

RE: i suppose you are right, they should have skipped the prayer in unison and went around the classroom so everyone could talk to God outloud in front of thier peers, the kids would have liked that alot better.

Why? Why not have the school be where they teach kids and the church, mosque or synagogue be where they preach?

RE: if this is your idea of "christian" living, that is really sad and i'm sorry.

It's what passes for Christianity here. Vote Bush, beat your kids, scream abuse at gays, get holier than thou.

RE: thats your opinion if you think spanking is abusive.

Nope, sorry - that's backed up by research.

RE: I think it's necessary sometimes. Do you have kids?

Yes.

RE: if so, hows that no-spanking thing going?

Very well. Cause I take the time to parent and to guide my kids as opposed to simply grabbing them and hitting them when they overstep some boundary.

RE: If you dont, lets touch on this subject again when you do. I have 3 boys under 10 and i dont spank them alot, but when i do they learn from it and they know i mean serious business, and i always back up punishment with love and an

You teach them three things. 1) I am bigger than you and might makes right 2) Your sins are absolved by this violence (as opposed to - this situation is wrong and you shouldn't do it) and 3) I hit you because I love you (lots of women in abusive relationships get nailed by this subconscious trap.)

RE: explanation as to why i was so angry and why it was so important to me to discipline them harshly.

Ah, so you whale on them to assauge your own feelings. Sicko. No wonder you buy into the God as Abusive Parent theology.

RE: It's always for thier own good and thankfully they are pretty good boys and it doesnt happen alot around here.

No, more like for yours. Lazy parenting and your own feelings matter more than raising happy healthy kids.

RE: wow you need to be exposed to Christians who actually love Christ and His teachings. These kind of people you describe are just the kind that the Lord confronted on a regular basis.

That's Christianity my friend and I want no part of it.

RE: God is our judge. It's not for us to say who's saved and who's not. Who's in heaven and who's not. God knows our hearts. We should all take the plank out of our own eye before we try and take the speck out of someone else's eye.

According to the Bible what I said is correct. Are you saying the Bible is wrong? I sure as hell am.

RE: so glad we could agree on something. cheers to that.

Yup.

 

Here we go again with the basic typical age-old anti-Christian complaints.

God is a gentleman. And He does know what's best for us. He will not force himself on us, and He will not keeping saving our asses all the time. Would a parent keep bailing thier kid out of jail repeatedly out of Love? Wouldnt the child become ungrateful and take thier parents for granted, knowing that every time they screw up, Daddy/Mommy will run to the rescue so they can do it all over again, if not something worse?

Sorry you feel this way. The things that are happening in the world that every complains so much about is OUR DOING. because of OUR SIN. War and terrorism and death are the result of our greed. It's the natural direction the globe goes if we're too selfish to share the earth and keep the peace. It's not because GOd isnt looking out for us. He offered the Way out. Not many people want to take it.

 

nowhere but have you found a scripture that says he's an asshole as you call Him?


THe BIble talks alot about God's patience, mercy, compassion, faithfulness, ect....which would lead us to conclude that He's a Gentleman!


hardy har, har, yuk, yuk, yuk

 

Nice dodging of all my comments, seahorse. The last refuge of those who are beaten in debate.

RE: nowhere but have you found a scripture that says he's an asshole as you call Him?

Note: In the Bible, words having to do with killing significantly outnumber words having to do with love.

GE 3:1-7, 22-24 God allows Adam and Eve to be deceived by the Serpent (the craftiest of all of God's wild creatures). They eat of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil," thereby incurring death for themselves and all of mankind for ever after. God prevents them from regaining eternal life, by placing a guard around the "Tree of Eternal Life." (Note: God could have done the same for the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" in the first place and would thereby have prevented the Fall of man, the necessity for Salvation, the Crucifixion of Jesus, etc.)

GE 4:2-8 God's arbitrary preference of Abel's offering to that of Cain's provokes Cain to commit the first biblically recorded murder and kill his brother Abel.

GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah's family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history.

GE 19:26 God personally sees to it that Lot's wife is turned to a pillar of salt (for having looked behind her while fleeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah).

EX 7:1, 14, 9:14-16, 10:1-2, 11:7 The purpose of the devastation that God brings to the Egyptians is as follows:
to show that he is Lord;
to show that there is none like him in all the earth;
to show his great power;
to cause his name to be declared throughout the earth;
to give the Israelites something to talk about with their children;
to show that he makes a distinction between Israel and Egypt.

EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.

EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.

LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."

LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.

LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39)

NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.

NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.

NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.

NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill many Israelites.

NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

JS 11:6 The Lord orders horses to be hamstrung. (Exceedingly cruel.)

JS 11:20 "For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated, as the Lord commanded Moses."

1SA 6:19 God kills seventy men (or so) for looking into the Ark (at him?). (Note: The early Israelites apparently thought the Ark to be God's abode.)

1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

2SA 24:15 The Lord sends a pestilence on Israel that kills 70,000 men.

2KI 1:10-12 Fire from heaven comes down and consumes fifty men.

2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

MT 3:12, 8:12, 10:21, 13:30, 42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, LK 13:28, JN 5:24 Some will spend eternity burning in Hell. There will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

the truth used to be more widely accepted. But as time goes on, people will try and snuff it out more and more, just as the scriptures say they will. No i wouldnt want my kids praying to anyone but the true living God, but saying that is meaningless to you because you dont believe Him to be.

i hope you know i was being sarcastic here.
They could have left prayer out of the school, which would have been fine too, but they werent hurting anyone by having a simple prayer to start the day.
Isnt North America built on Christianity? Why would someone plant themselves into a Christian-based country and then complain about our customs, our traditions, our praying?
I dont have anything against the fact that they arent praying in the schools anymore. But putting God in a box and taking him our only in a certain place and time is like being a Christian only on Sundays. Christians believe God is a part of our every day, our every moment. School, home, church, work, ect. It's not something you do, it's something you LIVE.

see this is the problem...you settle for that shit. That's NOT what Christianity is about. But it sounds like a great excuse not to become a Christian, thats for sure. A little research and reading up about Christ's character and you will see that His teachings are nothing like the things you describe as 'christianity'

 

Twist and dodge. Where did you even try to answer my question? The question, again, is how do you reslove "go into your closet to pray" with "lets have our kids pray outloud in front of the class".

And what in anything I said gave you the impression that i was saying this;?

"i suppose you are right, they should have skipped the prayer in unison and went around the classroom so everyone could talk to God outloud in front of thier peers, the kids would have liked that alot better."

That's pretty close to the oppisite of what I was saying.

Here's a clue for you seahorse; If you have to intentionally twist what someone's saying to you in order to make them seem wrong what's that tell you?

If the topic is truth and you have to use shady tactics to "win" the argument, as far as I'm concerned you've already admitted defeat.

 

i think i got you mixed up wit IronGoth, dude.

and this:

"i suppose you are right, they should have skipped the prayer in unison and went around the classroom so everyone could talk to God outloud in front of thier peers, the kids would have liked that alot better."...........

was sarcasm.

God doesnt ask us to say every single prayer by ourselves in our rooms. AGAIN His point of saying to go into your closet to pray was to not show off on the street corners like some people were doing!

you're accusing me of something that i am not doing. What does that tell YOU?

nope not admitting defeat. And i disagree that my tactics are shady. I'm not using any tactics.