All at once.

You say that doesn't make them unreal, but then what is it that makes them real? The fact that you can touch them, see them, taste them, smell them, feel them? That is not sufficient for me. That is like saying since I see a shimmering on the horizon when I am driving on the interstate on a hot day, then water must be on the road further down. I never reach it though.

The reason I feel that if something changes it is not real, is b/c that means it existed at one point, but wont at another. That means there will be or has been a point where it didn't exist at all.

 

OK - if that's your view fine. But if you see the formless reality, it won't make the reality of forms any less real.

What makes forms real is that they are manifestations of the un-manifest reality. Forms of that reality. Waves on the ocean's surface.

 

I see where you are coming from, but is it really a true manifestation of reality?

Let's look at it this way. We know what a line is right, geometrically speaking?

________________________________________________________________

Most people would say that is a line, when asked. But according to geometry, lines have no width. So, it isn't that what I drew is a line, it is simply a physical representation of a line.

We can talk about anything in the same way, really. Take numbers for example...

"2"

Is that a two? I dunno.....do 2's appear in HTML format, are they black in color, are they a line bent in a certain shape? No, it's just a physical representation of the concept or form of what we understand to be "two".

I don't consider these physical representations that appeal to our senses to be reality.

 

I see what you mean Cass, but like you, I cant find words to express my experiences which lead me to believe the complete opposite. Other than words like 'time loop', the experience of fighting an action that you already watched yourself perform and be unable to deviate, and extreme cases of deja vu.

 

And as for such extreme situations, how would you deal with a moment of your wife giving birth and a doctor coming to you and sayin "Which one should we allow to live, there is a major complication" other than opening your mouth and letting a word roll out? That choice is not up to any selfless person, that choice is one extreme example of letting God's will come out of you without you taking a moment to realize it. That is direct acceptance of being programmed and either choice you make is one that is horrible but must be made.

 

OK but if you were actually doing God's will, then you'd be free of the ego consciousness.
I'd say in a situation such as you describe, it would be more likely to be some emotional reaction that would surface.
However, that said, I don't think the life or death of an infant or mother is really a matter of God's will. From one aspect we could say it's karma (which might be changed even by some new medical intervention).

 

Both the line you draw and the figure 2 are only abstract representations of something else, so I don't know if it's a true parallel with what I meant.
In the case of the figure 2, we could easily have another symbol - it would still convey the same idea. '2' would still exist. All that has happened is that the form by which it is represented has changed.
However, in the case of the cosmic manifestation it is not an abstraction. We don't need to think in order to percieve it. Animals don't think in abstractions, yet clearly they percieve the world. Unless of course we think animals and the world itself are only illusions. In that case, I don't know if there's any argument that could 'prove' that it is not, and of course, vica versa.

One problem though is that if all is illusion, then so is that very idea, and the perception of a person who has that, or indeed any other idea. Equally, all philosophy, science etc etc would also be illusions. To take any of them seriously would only be to become entangled in unreality.

 

The illusion is really a mental illusion. We don't see the universe as it is, but through many layers of conditioning etc. We continually try to analyse it, label it, put in in a neat little mental box.
We project our own mental illusion onto the cosmos.
If we could get into another mode of perception, free from the usual filters etc, we might see the universe in a totally different light.

'if the doors of perception were clensed, man would see everything as it is - infinite' - William Blake.

 

From a higher level of spirtual consciousness, ideas that seem to totally contradict each other can be seen simply as different roads to truth, or different reflections of it. There's no one set of mental ideas which encompass the whole truth. However, some ideas have more utility for us than others.

 

Yea I agree. Im just sick today and sort of rambling on, in a low mood really.
God Bless +

 

forgive me if im sounding dumb here but how come B travelled to 1000 from 2050 yet you state time travel backwards is not (yet) possible?

 

if we can travel forward, we can travel backward most likely. this is not 100%, then again nothing is.but this is hypothetical (for now. until science proves it is possible)

 

people are accused of "living in the past" all the time - it's more about where your consciousness and perception is, rather than what the clocks and calendars say - all time is now

 

stoned philosopher im gonna have to disagree with your basic argument that time travel has been proven.

my question is who has proven it?? the only studies that i know of that have experimented with anything close to time travel is time dilation effects in respect to special relativity, where time is only dilated relative to one object traveling in space, not all of space.

and the thing about 80 years into the future in just one hour?? ive never heard of that before so i cant say if its true or false but where did you read this?

 

Science has proven that time travel is theoretically possible. We have nothing besides light and radio waves that we can make travel at the speed of light, so actual time travel is still a theory scientifically speaking. We do have to make constant time adjustments to GPS signals due to the speed-of-light pace of the satellite signals in order to maintain positional accuracy, so there's a real life situation where "time travel" comes into play. I'm not an expert by any means. This is just what my studies have revealed to me.

 

i believe "time travel" is the wrong term because it misleads the reader that you have traveled in time, but what experiments have shown, ( i believe these are the experiments you are taking about mr plebe) is that time dilates only to a certain objects frame of reference, meaning that the rest of space is still going at the normal pace. Therefore, the answer to this post is no, everything is not happening at the same time.

 

that blew my mind..

 

the phrase "do not question" <> (does NOT equal) "science". ever.
science is ALL about questioning, and there is no science without doing so.

 

hahah, true that. but i knew a million people would question the whole time travel idea, and IMjustfishin, i kinda agree, the term time travel misleads people, but i dont know what to call it, it is time travel in a sense

 

time travel is theoretically possible, but not physically possible. the theory of relativity states that it is physically impossible for any matter to travel faster than the speed of light.

Has anyone done any reading on entanglement? I find this really, really fascinating. Entanglement is the act of one particle affecting another particle nonlocally. by nonlocally, i mean there is nothing physical connecting the two particles. They dont push on each other to affect each other. They are simply entangled with each other. When one moves clockwise in its position in space, the other also moves..not neccesarily clockwise, but it is affected by the movement of the first particle .its a really hard concept to explain and I am definitely not the person to explain it, but there is a ton of good reading on it out there, written by people with more expertise and verbal accuity than me. This isnt a theory, its something thats been observed.

What I find so fascinating about entanglement is what happens when you apply it to the theory of relativity. If two particles can affect each other nonlocally through space, they can also affect each other through TIME. What this basically says is that, instead of the 4 dimensional space-time of the theory of relativity, there is an infinite number of dimensions. Which means..there is no time. There are only dimensions that cannot be observed from the observers in this dimension. What we believe to be the past is merely happening in another dimension at the same time. All is eternal.

I freaking love this, it blows my mind.