After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

Aerianne

LOL – maybe that is the difference between us I’m ignorant of many things, and I know I’m ignorant of a many things and I think that’s great because I like learning and expanding my knowledge.

I could never claim that I’ve no need to learn anything because I’m never ignorant.

There are many threads here I know little about because I’ve not contributed to them, if I do want to post in them, I try to read through the posts or at the very least look at the last few pages, I think it only polite to the other contributors that I’m not totally ignorant of what’s been said and the direction of the debate.

Oh well....

 

Not

OK I’m explain and will try to keep it simple for you but first -

You said that you thought some Americans were more murderous than others.

I asked (several times) if you thought these people hereditarily more murderous - were they genetically different than other humans.

You evaded the question and instead informed me that

OK now in the next post the longer bit….

 

Human Trash

Social Darwinism underpins a lot of right wing thought especially in the US, it is the idea that people are destined to be good humans or human trash, it basically sees outcomes and retrospectively applies that to that person’s (or groups) life.

If a person is a criminal this is because they are a trash human and has nothing to do with the social and economic system of their society. If they had been a good human they would never have turned to crime.

If a person is poor that is because they are of inferior stock if they were of superior stock they wouldn’t be poor. It is survival of the fittest and the fitter stock will always be in positions of advantage or achieve them whatever the social and economic system of that society

So in this way you can clearly see who the good humans are and who are the human trash. But can you look at new born baby and declare it good or trash?

Well out of Social Darwinism grew eugenics the idea humans could get involved in weeding out the human trash, they argued that those people born with defects or having degenerative illnesses should not be helped so that they would die off ‘naturally’ and people with negative traits (mental illness, criminality, deviancy) should be sterilised.

And of course the logical conclusion to such thinking is the idea that wouldn’t it just be easier to kill such human trash, why not just gas the criminals, the feeble-minded, the gays, the socialist, the Jews…

But let’s go back

Social Darwinism has long been popular amongst those with advantage because first it explains why they have the advantage – they are good humans – and it gives the perfect excuse why not to help the disadvantaged because they are lazy, scrounging trash.

And if those outcomes have nothing to do with the social and economic system of that society only with the individual then there is no point with trying to help the disadvantaged they have to help themselves and if they can’t be ‘good’ humans well it’s all their fault.

So if that's true then it stands to reason that the good (especially the very good) should be rewarded with things like tax cuts while welfare, healthcare and any public assistance given to the poor should be cut.

But are human trash always destined to be human trash?

For example are people born criminals?

Are people born more murderous than others, are people hereditarily more murderous more criminal than other people– are they genetically different than other humans, with some type of criminal gene?

To me they are no ‘good’ people and ‘trash’ people there are just human being, moulded by position, upbringing, circumstance, environment and experience.

And the thing is that society can help in that moulding – it can help people to fulfil their potential or hinder it, with all the negative or positive outcome that might have in a society.

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How this relates to gun control

The flawed and deeply skewed thinking of the Social Darwinist is also used by the gun lobby –

They claim that the problem is not ease of access to guns but a group of human trash that are more criminal and murderous than other human being on the planet and who would kill at the same rate even without guns -the problem is that like Social Darwinism this doesn’t stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

I mean why are these human beings different than those in other countries where lack of access to guns has resulted with much lower homicide rates?

 

So is this your answer to the question then? For the example I linked this is your response? Since Darwin ain't in Georgia and that example there was no gun used in a crime. I'm not sure if are saying he feels like you do or not.

I'd rather go forward and not back. This is NOT about gun control at this juncture.

I answered all your questions. Some more than once. In fairly low level easy to understand answers.

 

Not

Sorry this is gibberish – can you explain your thinking a bit more clearly?

 

Not

Just a moment LOL I asked you a question I you asked me to answer it for you.

 

Show us this example.

 

I'm not shocked you can't follow. I don't need Darwins explanation on trash. Nor do most of the Americans who have been dealing with the increased trash in our country for decades.

 

Not

LOL – you do know that Social Darwinism wasn’t thought up by Charles Darwin don’t you? In fact it was a pseudo-scientific (fake, false) take on the evolutionary theory.

And how is it not about gun control when this sequence started because you seemed to be saying that high levels of gun related homicides wasn’t connected to ease of access to guns but about some Americans been more murderous than other human being on the planet.

I have explained why I don’t think that is true – can you address the criticism?

If you believe that there has been an increase in what you call trash humans should the question be why – I’ve set out a part of what I think can you set out your own views?

 

You left out the exchange that got us there.

Balbus said: ↑
So the question is are Americans more murderous or is it just that Americans have easier access to much more lethal weapons?


My response: Yes some Americans are more murderous than others.

Balbus said: ↑
OK let’s play - which Americans and please don’t say we are going down the racist rabbit hole AGAIN

My response: You tell us. You're the smart one.

We didn't always have these problems in America. It's been created in recent decades of our history.

Let's see, we've heard it's complicated. It's socio economic, it's lack of education, it's lack of opportunity, it was about family values but then it wasn't. It will take scholars with advanced degrees to explain it to us simple minded folk. All of this has been said for years. And yet the problem continues unabated. We have more human trash in this country than we ever have.

Explain how we have managed to do that?

You still find this not answering your question.

I began to show you my response of it comes in many forms of trash and started with one link.

But we can't seem to get an answer to example one. At your rate of answering the first one it will take about 14 years to make a point in this attempt to show you how trash in America is growing.

 

Social Darwinism was proposed on the principles that peoples are subject to the same Darwinian laws of natural selection. It was advocated by a scholar named Herbert Spencer used to justify political views and it has been largely discredited for about 100 years. But that last part doesn't matter to you I'm sure. Since you posted about 30 minutes worth of having to figure out if that was an actual answer to a question or not.

YES AS I SAID AT THE START I BELIEVE THERE HAS BEEN AN INCREASE IN HUMAN TRASH. Repeated yet again for your continued clarity. And I began to take basic examples to build upon to get to the why.

So far you have provided reference to what I assume you want to use as a basis of logic for your response.

Maybe its will be better to ask it differently.

WHO on this thread can tell me if they find these people in this link an example of trash in America?

https://nypost.com/2018/03/20/famil...-covered-woman-found-alive-with-rotting-legs/

I was able to answer simply when OkieFreak proposed an example.

 

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OK – So do you think these ‘human trash’ as you call them are hereditarily, genetically, more prone to violence and crime than other humans beings? Do you think they were born as criminals?

*

 

Not

What are you going on about?

As pointed out Social Darwinist thinking still seems to have an influence on right wing thought even today, especially in the US.

You can list loads of crimes but if you believe in this increase shouldn’t the question be why?

You seem to be imply you do know why so why not tell us?

And what has it to do with gun control?

 

When I think of human trash, I think of the Pussy Grabber in Chief, his adult sons, Kushner, and some of his core supporters--Flynn, Manafort,Bannon, Milo, the Stormers, David Duke, the racist/nativist part of his base, Alex Jones, the crews at Fox, Breitbart, tand InfoWars, the Mercers, the Koch Brothers, Ted Cruz, etc. I don't know they were involved in any gun violence though.As the saying goes, " One person's trash is another's treasure".

 

When some people get real mad, or when they want something really bad, they murder someone to satisfy themselves. Some people don't. The ones who resort to murder are more murderous than the ones who don't.

 

Storch

But that isn’t the context - the argument seemed to be that easy access to guns was not the reason for the high levels of homicides in the US but that some Americans were more violent than other human beings in the world.

But people in comparable countries to the US also get angry or desperate and act violently - it isn’t confined to just Americans - but what is different is that the in the US there is much easier access to guns.

 

Part of why we have such an increase in trash in Anerica, the crimes, the populations that commit them and the measures taken to protect them.

 

The only one keeping this about guns is you. We try and discuss the erosion of moral fabric in America and you circulate back to guns. Guns and their access has been around long before the murderous ones made them their choice to use.

So as you complain about constant circular arguments, stop circling back to it.

I have yet to hear you provide an answer as to are the people I linked in the first example trash or not?

 

Not

You begin ‘Part of why we have such an increase in trash…’ but then you don’t actually say why?

Can you please clarify why do you believe there has been an increase in the numbers of what you call ‘human trash’?

Oh and can you answer the repeated question - do you think these ‘human trash’ as you call them are hereditarily, genetically, more prone to violence and crime than other humans beings? Do you think they were born as criminals?