A Peaceful non-violent society is inevitable

You are right about one thing, when the proletariat become educated and rise to power, and we have a socialized, bottom run country, we will live in a peaceful state. And I think it's inevitable, but it happens in stages.

The socialization of government, transforming government into an institution run by and for the people, is just one step into the transition into eventual socialism, which is a more natural government than the one run by the oligarchy, which is the corporate way.

 

Lenin and Stalin were not true socialists in the Marxist meaning....they were dictators, willful and selfish and their governments were not truly run from the ground up.

 

Redfox, Job aren't hard to find, and in a free market society, one can start a business, or, work for themselves. Regulations and insane taxes, have made it impossible for the middle class to save or, start a business. More money in the hands of citizens, would go into our economy, and, there would be more than enough jobs to go around.

 

You're blaming corporatism, for something that is bound within Government. We can't live peacefully, under a system of force, and it contradicts itself.

Capitalism is based on non violent compliance; You want a product, and you make a voluntary interaction, to willfully purchase it. The Liberal option, on the other hand, is having a system of force impose peace. and if you don't think you're advocating force, what if I don't allow the Government to steal my money for products I don't want or need??

and you think that is more humane than a voluntary society?

 

I'm sorry to tell you, but, "ground up" Government is an act of fiction. Communism was sponsored by the Illuminati, which is controlled by the bankers. It is merely another way to get people to embrace their slavery...

 

Then explain Wal-Mart's continued existence despite my personal boycott and many people I know boycotting them for the way they under-train and treat their employees.


Explain industry wide scandals like the financial markets over leveraging risk AFTER The Glass-Stegal act was repealed under financial lobbyists pressures on Congressional committees and the White House during the Clinton era.

^Just two situations of examples needing addressing that offer a rebuttal about why corporations don't go out of business as easily as you claim.



Also corporations have international business ventures, so a small market share of people in America who won't give them business have less effect on them the larger they are. > to big to fail.

Or if they do fail, the huge ripple effect on the economy cannot be recovered in time to keep financial Confidence stable.
(I.e. Jobs instantly laid off, fluctuations in household income among psychological stress at the microeconomic level).

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In regards to the financial bailout, I think the public is more upset institutions for a bailout, and the American individual did not.


If I were President I would've pushed publically for the federal government not only to absorb the financial crisis debt of banks, but also those of individuals who have insurmountable personal debt from credit cards or debt from student loans or car payments or mortgages, I would have advocated wiping all of that clean for the average American citizen so that the country could truly have a fresh start and take on fiscal responsibility.


Push all that debt into one coffer and chip away at it strategically over time as one nation.



But no....we got only a bank bailout. Which is what I think both occupy and the tea party are truly mad about, but are expressing it on other political token issues, and they got side tracked with "political purity".

 

Are you daft?

Its great you're so worried about America and all but you're completely pretending one half of the problem does not exist. Actually, not only are you pretending it doesn't exist but you somehow believe it is the solution.

Capitalism is fine when it is restrained. Unbridled capitalism and corporatism is ruining the world. Are you really okay with how capitalism has played out in this country? You're ok with profit being the absolute bottom line (and it is with corporations. Small businesses have a vested interest in the community whereas corporations dont give a shit, generally). You're ok with shipping jobs overseas to small Asian children or overworked and underpaid Asian adults who make shoddy products that dont last and pile up in American landfills? You're okay with getting rid of all environmental laws and allowing corporations to dump their waste wherever they please?

Argghhhgghh.

I just don't think you're giving this a whole lot of thought.

 

I've brought all these criticisms to his arguments before and basically deflects them with the notion that he believes that if his vision of the world and structure of government was enacted, the individual would be able to hold companies more accountable in court, than the current structure of government.


He merges corporatism and government into one entity that he calls "liberalism, and government" when he makes posts.

I find a good chunk of his posts are influenced from conspiracy theory, and discontent from the finance industry. Some of them are based on genuine problems but then spun and stretched out with non-verifiable claims about illuminati claims.


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I'm also pretty sure STP shirks and does not find many scientists credible on issues like Global Warming , as he has mentioned in the past that he believes weather patterns and earthquakes are being controlled by a shadow government (dirty bankers, politicians, and a select few bloodline families) military-industrial complex space weapon called HAARP.

I'll let Wikipedia objectively describe this.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program

 

Excessively restrained capitalism = Crapitalism

The regulations that become created in the name of "public protection" are most of the time created by the corporations themselves, and the politicians in charge play favorites. Much of the time, these regulations target small business owners who are competitive threats to the corporations. And they create regulation to stomp out the fires of entrepreneurial growth.

 

Oh jeez, how many heinous dictators must we cycle through before you take a hint? How many ethnicities must we exterminate before the world learns that command economies are a pox on humanity?

Remember, Nazis were socialists too.

 

There is truth to this, but it's a very much case by case industry by industry basis.

I wish this truth, wasn't generalized to say the entire system is meritless or bad.


But I mean look at the GM recall stuff? They had problems and covered it up for 10 years! That's not government regulation putting them in that position, that's pure private sector problems irrespective of government.

 

I happen to own one of those GM cars... We had a forum, probably still exists, but we all knew about it back 6-7 years ago and GM just thumbed their nose at us. People died, GM could care lass.

 

Doesn't this fall under the blanket term of corporatism? Corporations who control politicians like puppets and prevent smaller businesses from growing is a great example of unbridled capitalism.

Yeah, you're right. I dont know why any of us bother arguing. It is pretty entertaining though.

 

Interesting discussion tangent for this "corporations control politicians like puppets" line people like to say.


Can anybody specify how hey believe Corporations control politicians and what gets written into legislation?


People like to say the general statement, but when you ask them for specifics, they can't tell you the process by which private sector and public sector truly interact with each other.


Most feel it's straight up bribery, actually that's actually pretty rare, and we've just had like 6 public news stories busting various politicians nationwide on campaign rule infractions, among other corruption charges.


I'd also like to add that I am emphasizing what is legal or illegal, not necessarily what is right or wrong.


They are separate even though we keep linking them.

 

You have heard of lobbying, right?

 

Yeah this.

I could provide examples but I am le tired. Perhaps tomorrow

 

So yeah expand on that process and how it relates to the process that the US and various State Constitutions follow when making legislation.

Why does it work? Where does it work best? Where does it fail?

 

Communism is not an illuminati construction. Are you aware of the work of Karl Marx, a philosopher himself, admirer of Hegel? In his work capitalism is the progression from feudalism, and in a similar fashion his socialism is progressive and a result of capitalism. In socialism the proletariat tire of being exploited by the relatively few expoiters, and so turn against them. Along the way we have the evolution of the working class, as they form labor unions and in this way organize and gain some leverage. We are arriving at a time that looks ripe for the plucking, for the workers of the world to finally throw off their chains and take the land that is theirs.

 

I do not think this Illuminati conspiracy of yours holds up well to daylight. It is alive and well on the shadows of the internet, but in reality, communism is not a fruit of the overclass at all. It is a natural progression the working class will undertake. Government does figure into the equation, and there will likely be government for a very long time. It may as well serve the majority, and not minority groups like the wealthy capitalists.

 

Peace will never exist as long as labor is exploited for capital, in favor of the minority at the expense of the majority.

Why do you insist that capitalism will ever be compatible with true peace? Capitalism is barbaric, is essentially competitive and therefore will always lead to unneccesary unrest and misery. Suffering will always be a part of life, because of disease, attacks from animals, or the result of natural disasters, but when people live in chains, indebted to other human beings just for the right to be here and remain alive, I will not call that peace.