A Peaceful non-violent society is inevitable

Just saying something does not make it true. Why do you think this? If someone can't find a job (and therefore doesn't really pay any tax anyway), how is cutting taxes going to help them eat?

 

Well, in my opinion, that is a scape goat. Reagan was in office 8 years, as was Bush. But, nearly 8 years of having a democrat in office, has been shown to be just as damaging. Therefore imo, Government policies are the problem, not just tax cuts for the wealthy, but everything.

No, capitalism has worked in our past. Government wasn't .1% of it's size today, until the 1960's. Imo, we're seeing the progression of that, which would mean the problem is epidemic, not a couple of policies from a couple bad people, but, the fact that Government has become built around this corruption.

That's not entirely true. In a true free market, you can start your own business, on little to no money. You can go find native american artifacts and get rich, you can spend a dollar on a gallon of lemonade, and, sell it 50 cents a cup. With Government however, one can't legally start a business without paying 4 thousand dollars to Government, and complying with regulations which are put in place, by the elite of that specific industry.

"War is the health of the State"

But no, when Government takes over manufacturing, prices go up. Prices go up, on many things during times of war, including oil. That's why there's a huge lobby for Big Oil, and why we pick on the middle east.

There would be enough jobs for everyone, if the Government would get out of our way, allow us to keep the money we've earned in blood, and, allowed people to start a business if they want. It's proven that this is good for the economy, as is cutting foodstamps. The reason they don't do that, they don't care to give away money, cause it isn't their money. Sure, some of them pay into the pot, but, they're also abusing the system, to get wjatever they want. In other words, in benefits them more than it hurts them, and it's the total contrast for lower class people.

 

I guess you aren't very familiar with for profit prisons, which are becoming increasingly common in the united states. Do some research. Privatizing prisons is not a good thing.

 

The Roman Empire also privatized the concept of a "fire department".

You know when price was being negotiated between the firefighters and the person or community was in need for their services?

They negotiated price when the firm knew the individuals would pay through the nose because the return on investment for the customer happens the quicker they'd give in on the price the firm wanted.

Taking time to price haggle, probably meant the fire would be pointless to put out because all your loved ones and valuables would be gone.

So that's why we don't privatize certain services that are in the "public interest" or have the potential to throw an upheaval to businesses everywhere.


Cable companies, water companies, and electric companies are also now very real modern threats to the success if failure if many small businesses given their potential to disrupt a work week or vital machines used for business upkeep.


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Let me also add that despite you saying he 1960's was America's downfall, the 1920's and 30's were horrible after the Great Depression.

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Also you mischaracterized me again to say I don't recognize government and private sector corporate abuse. I do recognize it and think campaign finance reform is the solution and making our elections system more of a "public good" rather than how the system is now.

^ I believe THAT is what allows politics and policy to be bought and shaped by the elite.

You use a vague catch all term of "government" to demonize 99% of it without specifying further that you aren't throwing the baby out with the bath water.


Your position and views on these matters are MUCH more extreme and inflexible because of your ideology.

This is probably why we don't agree on a lot of things as I've said before I am not an idealist. I deal with the world as it is, not as I want it to be, and work from there.


But instead you've characterized my arguments and views and tried to define what I am saying, which you have no right to do, as lumping me with the rest of what I consider idealistic Left people.

Let me also state that no as it is there is not enough $ in the system to give everybody a middle class lifestyle, and that the math behind foodstamps = statistically significant lazy poor populous, isn't factually supported.

You are stating opinions as facts which is a very big pet peeve with me, as I see that as a type of deception of other people.

You might have known 20-100 people who might abuse the system, but that doesn't mean it's representative of the rest of the people using the system and then bouncing out of it back into the workforce.

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Another thing is that Germany is still in a recession and their economic growth hasn't happened after severe austerity measures. (Aka: cuts in spending).


The USA economy is still growing post-stimulus, and that stimulus bill was half as big as what economists were telling Congress of 2008, it needed to be.

Economists, and I read this in USA Today back when we crashed and people were panicking, that the stimulus should've been 1.6 Trillion.

 

empty the prisons of people involved with drugs, already. Save the prisons for the rapists and murderers and larceny, and I am not talking about the poor person stealing a loaf of bread somewhere.........I am all for that.

When you get down to it, govt are theives as well..The water tax goes up here every year in this town....and we are not on the town water here....It is coming from our own property....Can you imagine that?....and tax must be paid on it......every year.....as well as the property tax and school tax and.....

 

So the politicians and their CEO buddies?

 

I did elaborate further there, Ty.....I know alot of the govt is criminal.....
but I am not going to rule the world, so I have to live in this world the best way I can....and I am not wearing rose colored glasses, either, about anything much.......:rockon:

 

In a free market, there are plenty of ways to better yourself, and make money. You're talking about general problems in any society. But, Government does not help every starving person. Moreover, there are ways for people to eat. You're bringing up pretty general Liberal ideology, that believes it is the Government obligation to take care of the needs of individuals. Yes, under a system of force and violence, maybe that is the best thing you can hope for, but no Government, would mean trillions upon trillions of dollars, and all the power, in the hands of each individual, at a problem by problem basis.

another thing, you Liberals have this automatic assumption that one group of people, for whatever reason, are entitled to other peoples money.

 

so what do you call people that are liberal minded in some ways but not in other ways?
I call them free thinkers.

 

It's not a good thing with the stupid laws we have, which, put regular people in jail. It would be good for the prisoners, because they'd allow them smoke and there would be competition, which would probably lead to better living conditions. But, when you arrest people, for ingesting certain plants, of course there is going to be abuse in the system, because the whole drug war and court system has become a pig-circus.

 

In other words, you've got nothing. Just a bunch of old rhetoric.

 

You better do more research on privatized prisons... You don't have a clue as to where it's headed. They are corporations based on profits for their investors. Not living conditions and competition.


Actually you better just do more research on everything you believe. Pull your head out of the sand, or where ever it is you keep it.

 

The Drug war is ineffective, okay that's 1 policy that I look on and will have a judgement on a CASE BY CASE BASIS.

What is bugging me, is that you are taking 1-10 policies or programs, and then stringing that argument to demonize GENERALLY!

It's like you're expecting absolute perfection from every government program, otherwise it's worthless, and hence government as a whole is worthless.

^That is basically what you sound like.


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Now I'm gonna challenge you to do math for me STP, rather than just opinions.


And I expect you to understand how the stock market's current returns, and our current tax code system will allow for individuals to meet a middle class lifestyle without starving to death or being extremely malnourished for an average family of 4-5 members.


First describe how the system works now, and then describe IN DETAIL, how your ideal version of the world is gonna work, while taking into account the consequences of cutting spending, and getting rid of a lot of the public-regulations on (water, electricity, and other public resources), by giving those responsibilities to the private sector.

 

"Because it still wouldn't be acceptable to kill people. I don't know what you Liberals think would happen. But, I specifically said you still can't hurt or kill anyone."

Oh, because you said so people will just get along. Oh, right.

 

So if you relax you'll be ahead of the curve!

 

I'm just gonna bump my post until the math is posted.

 

I'm baffled.
Most of the posts challenging Stp have been thumbed down twice, who else is doing it and actually agrees with this psyche ward escapee?

he must be logging in with another ID.

not surprising, multiple personality disorder coupled with paranoid schizophrenic delusions.

 

Ha, neg rep from Stp.

 

Hey hey, let's not make assumptions on who is thumbing down my comments, only mods could confirm something like multiple accounts, and until then we shouldn't point fingers until there's evidence of such conduct.


My beef with STP, and those who share his views, is the lack of SOLID argumentation and evidence, rather than just opinions.


I am not mad at his person or those who share his beliefs, just his persuasion, and argumentation and debate, which includes his sources.


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Ultimately, the world will not see a peaceful non-violent society, as long as there are religious-fueled wars, and a lack of resources that aren't shared equally worldwide.

^Those two issues in my opinion are why we haven't ever seen a kinda paradise on Earth, and it's a logistics thing.