A god exists. Or there would be no 'our universe'

How true. Having studied Biology, it only makes sense that complexity is the extension IMO. Emotions and conscientiousness being a prime example.

Zorba may be right in that we are orderly because we stem from an orderly universe, not because the ultimate order (a God) created it. I don't I can explain as well as he has...

But from my studies in Biology, it is interesting that organisms naturally become more complex. All of these advances are caused by stresses (the need to get away from predators, etc.) Humanity is interesting because we have reached a point where our basic needs are satisfied (for the most part) and we have more time to contemplate things. We are now in a time where we can advance our minds rather than our biological functions. We are becoming more logical, psychologically aware, and our minds are being opened up to new possibilities that we couldn't consider before because we didn't have the tools to test theories (like we are doing now with quantum mechanics).

As for this discussion: as mentioned, there are infinite possibilities as to why were here and how. We can only make our own purpose in life, because we're never going to know who created the universe (or maybe we will?) From my experience with physics, there are limitations to what can be known (consider Heisenberg uncertainty principle) and string theory (no matter how many problems it can solve or the possibility of it being true) can never proven using the scientific method with today's technology: it all relies on the math.

Can we all just be agnostic and accept that we just can't know yet? =)

 

Really though, it grows. I suppose that could be seen as an outward direction.

Maybe I missed the point of the thread however. I was referring to a direction as in a path, a metaphorical hand that leads and guides. I don't believe there is a "direction" for things.

 

For instance, it is natural for atoms to collide and form different molecules, extending (or growing in your terms) into cells, then tissues, etc. However, that is the nature of things, not the way a God is pushing or directing it.

 

That's what I was getting at, thanks for articulating it better than my attempts.

 

Just merely providing an example for reference =)

 

i think its possible that "our" universe is part of something much larger that the human consciousness cannot, at this time, grasp. I don't think humans, even with all our knowledge of the physical universe, are anywhere close to understanding the bigger picture. Whether you want to define the bigger picture as "God" really comes down to semantics.

 

The universe and universal laws are still my conjectures. I see as much disunity between phenomena as I see unity. I am a dish of mold trapped in a man's body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgeGd6IzPtA&feature=related"]YouTube - Pure Being

 

I completely agree.

Often this thought has depressed me: it would be like classifying myself as a molecule that supports the structure of the cell that is my universe (or world) but it would be far beyond my grasp to comprehend the organism that I am a part of. My part is so insignificant, yet as a whole the individuals build something quite powerful. Of course this is an example that relates to the world I am exposed to: I cannot fathom what 'higher' composition I could be a part of.

Of course, there may not be any bigger picture and things just are. Maybe we're still creating the 'bigger picture' but we're not there yet: thus the necessity to 'expand' or evolve. I keep thinking back to Nietzsche and his thought of the 'superman.' Man must be overcome... yet what comes after? We are born of risen apes, but what will be born of us?

 

This isn't Nietzsche's writing-

I won't get into Nietzsche a lot, but when one lives without needing to ask or answer, "why live at all?", that is what comes after.

To be able to understand that life is completely devoid of any and all meaning and direction aside from that which we give it, and to be able to live for one's own sake by the morality they've chosen; that's what comes after man being overcome.

Nietzsche's "man" in that statement ("man must be overcome") is largely a religious man, or any man/woman that lives for anything other than themselves and abides by any set of moral standards other than their own, such as ones "assigned" by any deity or religion.

It isn't a literal physical evolution, but an intellectual, mental one.

Everything we are or could be is right now, nothing else matters. Existence doesn't need justification.

 

Thanks for that. I was never really properly informed of what Nietzsche was referring to, I guess I just use it for my own context and understanding when I was first introduced to the concept of 'overcoming man.'

I must have not read it the way Nietzsche meant it by the way he phrased it "man must be overcome." Because coming the realization that you create your own purpose, I would argue, is embracing man and overcoming everything else. But as you said, it's a particular kind of man that he refers to.

 

Pretty much as far as I know. The thing is though, everyone more or less is "guilty" of falling into line with their fellow wo-men. We all pretty well adhere to society's standards and morals.

 

if atomic structure didn't exist, why would atoms? It's still all physics.

 

i try to think of god's voice sometimes . it's casual , and i make no reasoning .
do i ever get an experience ? not a whisper in my head .

 

Gravity is a kind of intent.

 

If you're going to make it in society, you're going to have to to some degree. Some people hate it and want to escape, but the need for other people will almost always get people to conform to some degree in the end.

It's going to be sometime before people can really be 'free' in spirit and thought. That's the superman I was talking about, in some ways. So perhaps I did not misunderstand Nietzsche as much as originally thought, only seeing it in different ways...

 

I have a hard time with Nietzsche. My mind cannot help but seek a higher purpose, not a God per se, but a reason for existance. However, I can't help but agree with Nietzsche even though it conflicts with everything I believe or want to believe. Due to that conflict I generally stay away from Nietzsche discussions because I'll end up contradicting myself in some way.

That thought depresses me sometimes too. If our world and our universe are just minute molecules that make up a much larger whole, that renders humans as insignificant as the cells that make up our body. Our cells are important in that they are our building blocks, but they serve no higher purpose. As i said before, I've always wanted to believe that there is a reason and a higher purpose for everything, but when confronted with the idea that we could have no importance aside from making up a larger whole, it sometimes induces feelings of worthlessness and panic. I understand why people believe in God even when confronted with contrary evidence. Its comforting.

However, I do agree that the point of life is simply to live and exist. The idea that i am able to live my life, love others, and experience both joy and pain is comforting to me in the same way that God is comforting to others.

Actually I think love in and of itself does give us a higher purpose.

 

The purpose is whatever you make it. You don't need someone else's purpose for YOUR life, that's worse than no purpose at all.

 

qft

 

Oh trust me, I know thats the truth. I was referring more to a general purpose of life though, not neccessarily a personal purpose to live.

 

Precisely, the traditional version of god is a teddy bear for when the night gets scary.
People have always experienced that panic you describe, that's why it was necessary to invent god.

Life is worthless, but that doesn't mean we're not part of a big picture. The whole cannot exist without the parts. So, even though we're just a tiny link in the chain, nothing above or below us could exist without us. That's somewhat comforting if you should need comfort.

Exactly