A god exists. Or there would be no 'our universe'

Difficulties arise when assuming that "God" exists within our universe and not as an external factor, kind of like the canvas of a painting.

It's also difficult to have a reasonable argument about the existence of some greater power when using the word "God" what with all the negative connotations people have with the word. I believe in "God" - or rather a creating force, a greater consciousness - but I am atheistic at the same time in the sense I do not believe in the Abrahamic god. I think a lot of vocal atheists fail to make any distinction and it is the practice of religion by humans, in their flawed ways, and the anthropomorphised "God" they have a beef with, and not so much the idea of a creating force. Surely any reasonable scientifically minded person will agree that you won't get something from nothing, some sort of catalyst would have been required to begin the expansion of our universe.

If you look into quantum physics and keep an open mind, you will find that science and spirituality are closer now than ever before. Oneness, for example, is commonly accepted among physicists.

 

The word 'universe' means "everything that exists anywhere"

It would include the paint, the canvas, the painter, and everything else.

 

the god part would be the ego, i suppose, though i am not sure of its existence, of course, which is why sometimes i refer to a creative force, and sometimes a creator. i suppose i ought to be more discriminate in my use of these labels.

 

I agree. We can call it regularity. It's up to us to decide whether we're satisfied with the idea that a remarkably high degree of regularity exists in the universe or if we want to take the further step of asking "why?"

 

your rite okie,

so i will put forth a new argument: consciousness is not required for the formation of "our universe". Conciseness is a product of the universe.

 

I think there is more than enough proof/evidence to not consider the existence of a personal God..A god that gives two shits about your personal life, or even the planet at a whole. Rather obviously that is not reality.
If you discount that though I don't really see what the difference between nature and an impersonal "God" really is..

 

You have a very limited understanding of the scientific method..

 

braininavat2- interesting grey area, is it not?

 

conclusions that do not fallow their premisis seem to have remained inexplicably popular for a very long time.

humans do seem to love bullshitting themselves.

nothing "has to" anything.
WE (the collective "we" of the human species) don't HAVE to exist either. and yet we do.

no one knows what "can't" exist. only that nothing HAS to.

 

The universe was not created, it always existed in some form. If that argument is good enough for the question, "Where did god come from?" it can be good enough for "Where did the universe come from?"

 

Exactly

 

Occam

There is direction
Religion is false.

Thus i believe in ' a direction' that which sets rules'
But not in any silly human story depicting 'god'

To be NOT an atheist but NOT believe in religion.

Sort of screws the pooch for religion.. which was always a fairy story
For removing religion from the equation does NOT deny direction.

Thus one
can believe in a 'god' but have no religion. That god being simply a being that has vastly
greater understanding. Who cares not if you or your solar system blowup.. thats god.

 

If the universe always existed then God is the CREATOR of nothing and therefore has no reason to exist at all.

 

you sorta do.

 

its not 'our universe', how arrogant, what about aliens on other planets..? The universe can only be posessed in the minds of man, thats the only thing saying the universe is ours.. perhaps the universe can only be created by the minds of man too.

 

No because we can talk to eachother because such IS.
If it were not. If there was no structure.. There would be a homogenous mass of atoms

nothing

 

Teleonomy may provide a good answer to this question. The idea being not that we were created by an intelligent being something like ourselves, but that matter naturally orders itself. We look at the orderly world and the orderly things we create and assume that something like us must have created the world. But perhaps it is the other way around: we are orderly because we are born out of the orderly world. Matter does not behave randomly, but has an inherent process of organization which evolves over time; we can compare this with system theory. The important thing to make clear is that this process of organization does not imply an intelligent creator -- it just means that we have perhaps mis-attributed the credit for organization.

 

There is no god. There have been no real effects from one. There are no systems or structures that can exist that NEED a god.

I don't have to prove such...

Science the method says YOU must show this is false.

In 39 years, no one has come close...

Seems the only difference in our arguments is the amount of time... I guess I win...

My theory hasnt been proven to be false longer then yours has...

 

There is no direction in the universe in my opinion. Planets collide, people fuck-life is created, anger fuels spontaneous death, none of this is or has direction and yet it is the workings of the universe. It's chaos. There is no hand that guides anything.

 

It extends. Creation is extension.