9/11 ATTACKS - Avoiding the hard questions

Involved in the orchestration and execution of the days events, gary? No. Not Georgie boy, but Cheney & Rummy and senior Pentagon/NORAD officials (likely CIA/Mossad cooperation as well), are indeed far more plausibly involved than those repeatedly asserted as responsible (without any legitimate proof) by the official fairy tale.

Those who are holding the reign of power throughout my nation's institutional infrastructure are quite sociopathic and focussed on the preservation of the interests of an elite minority, not the welfare of the average man on the street (aka "the herd"). This is an ideological cabal deeply convinced of the manifest destiny of their notions of empire.

 

No i am not american... but like you say 'i think that says it all'

Your just spouting off your version of the truth..

Then i respond with mine..

I doubt even a middle ground can be found..

Imho i think once the responsibility is shifted onto OBL then 1/2 if not 3/4 of the conspiracys fall flat on there face.. maybe why the alternate is never given any credance.

Gary i think the truth is horribly dull and straight forward [though ofcourse bloody sad and depressing].. with hindsight i can appreciate mistakes were made ..but i reckon a bunch of brainwashed [by Al-Quaeda] stepped on a plane and got remarkably lucky.. it looks amazing now because it was a success... I think if i had been a member of the HF back on 11 September 2001 then i think pretty much most people would be saying EXACTLTY what they are saying right now.. I say this because i WAS a member back on the 7/7/05.. and it made me sick that some people had made their mind up that morning.. No we don't go on and on and on about that..cuz i reckon the trail leads to places were some people do not like to go. .. i.e OBL. Oh they would much more like just to rattle on about 9/11 an Mr Bush.. because that is so more complex... and so much more 'rewarding' for tham..

Gee whiz i sound cynical

 

The only place which the majority empirically don't want to go, matthew, is precisely where you demonstrate an illogical preferral not to venture either, namely that the most consistent and demonstrable motive, means and opportunity rests firmly at the doorstep of key elements of this US administration.

"Got incredibly lucky" is the most ridiculous assessment of a multi-pronged, multi-targetted, militarily precise attack on US infrastructure unprecedented by any outside force, let alone boogeymen Al Qaeda operatives who are neither:

1. capable of flying so much as a cessna

nor, by documented witness testimony

2. characteristic of any sort of radical suicidal ideologically-indoctrinated muslim.

The simple fact is that despite your repeated claims to the contrary, you never have weighed the mountains of evidentiary material that points directly to an inside job, because the psychological dynamic of realising our own leaders capable of treason and betrayal of such magnitude would undermine every assumption you wish to preserve about our so called "liberal democratic" governing systems and those who have ascended to power therein.

The level of actual civic duty and vigilance required is more than you and the bulk of the populist bandwagoneers are prepared to commit. Thus, no matter how much solid court-worthy evidence is provided, you dare not acknoweldge that the only real conspiracy "theory" remaining unproven to this day is the official line itself.

Evasion, dismissal, denial and deference to anything pronounced by authority figures is as commonly recognised a mass psychosis as ever there was.

Just what the PNAC ideologue nutcases counted on 5 years ago when they hijacked Washington and the nation to set their plan for perpetual war in motion.

Go back to sleep now, my gullible and utterly naive friend.

 

http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102426&page=1&pp=10

The usual suspects...

I would ask people to read what this gentleman wrote THE SAME DAY.. Now look at the evidence that has amassed upto now .. and consider if it is unreasonable of me to have the thoughts i have had within this thread.

This came later

http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103144&page=1&pp=10

again the usual suspects..with the same old conclusions/rhetoric..

Sometimes i wonder if a machine does not type your posts Lick' >

'Whatever'

 

No matt, but in keeping with the state machinery whose never proven claims you swallow without scrutiny, your responses and continued refusals to weigh the mountains of evidence of direct responsibility for the treason of 911 apparently have been. Show us the concrete proof that OBL is guilty of any involvement in planning or executing the event.

Any do take note that is a vast difference between intelligence "claims" and "evidence" to the fact.

Even the US admin could not provide such evidence when offered Bin Laden in exchnge for such proof by the Taliban. Fact is they had none, just as they have no evidence of guilt for any of those illegally detained and tortured to reinforce the media-fed ruse of this fraudulent WoT.

How sad that you insulate your mind from rational scrutiny of it all. Ignorance truly must be bliss.

 

I believe what my eyes see most of the time and what I saw was two planes hit two buildings and shortly after the buildings collapsed. If thats brainwashing and the true story is different then I am fooled by a very good illusion.

I also saw loads of people in Pakistan celebrating the falling of the buildings and I have seen the evidence in other areas of the world of Al Quaeda such as in Spain and here in the UK.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, as mentioned before, because I think they can be incredibly dangerous.

 

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Yes we all saw two planes hit two buildings and then in unprecedented recorded structural history, saw two highrise steel structures crumble into dust and debris and fall into their own footprint supposedly because two hydrocarbon-based (scientifically insufficient for even softening let alone melting steel) fires on a few uppermost stories somehow weakened the entire 4/5 of the unburnt, undamaged floors and 47 central box columns below the impact area sufficiently to cause global collapse at freefall speeds. Let's rewrite domlition methodology since all we now need henceforth is to damage a few upper floors of any building and ignite 10,000 gallons of jet fuel. How amazing!!

Yes you and the bulk we're fooled by a very visually shocking and traumatic bait and switch for which the official pundits will twist all logical known properties and behavioural characteristics of buildings to convince you that what looked like every other recorded controlled demolition wasn't.

Talk about rational minds depserate to avoid occam's razor at all cost.

More rightly, you saw televised images, somewhat after that day's attacks, accompanied by commentary telling you that there were "massive crowds" celebrating that event. No possibility that those images could have been from any other archived footage of entirely unrelated celebrating or that the supposed crowds could have been no more than a handful of people (as if noone celebrates the misfortune of people/nations they despise ANYWHERE in our western nations). Gee, you accept such without question? You are Rove's wet dream, to be sure!

Moreover, you say you've EVIDENCE of "Al Qaeda" (i.e. concrete proof of their orchestration of Madrid, London et al) or that you've AGAIN seen mainstream news reports showing the shocking aftermath of mass murders filtered through, by that point, an already well accepted journalistic paradigm/filter of "Al Qaeda claimed responsibility"? If you have this concrete proof of the culprits other than repeated assertions by "official sources", I would truly love to see it. I saw all those reports too, but no evidence ever shown to substantiate any Al Qaeda.

Actually you've just explained quite clearly that you swallow the most continuous stream of "conspiracy theory" (aka The Far Enemy) regularly advanced by our governments and their media mouthpieces without question. Your mentally conditioned acceptance of "official" pronouncements without demand for substantiation is patently clear and yes, added to the same by the bulk of our complacent non-questioning masses, extremely dangerous to the preservation of any legitimate democratic principle of government accountability for the coming generations.

Thanks for playing, you can go back to zoning out in front of The Weakest Link now.

 

I wish it was just "preservation", but unfortuantely it's far worse...they're focused on the EXPANSION of their elite power. They're so maniacally sociopathic that they're literally attempting world domination. The ultimate little boy's dream..."to rule the world". Scary thing is, they're coming awefully close now. We need a resistance movement more than any other time in human history. Heady stuff eh?

Matthew, have you read David Ray Griffin's books yet? (The New Pearl Harbor and the follow-up The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions) If you haven't, please give them a chance.

 

There is no conspiracy, those videos, they only ask questions, but don't give answers.
Here's another long thread about the video "Loose Change" in another forum I frequent for more than a year: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1432710
I'm gonna pull out quotes from a firefighter in the forum.

And for anyone who has suspision about the pentagon here's a nice of what happens when a place crashes into a concrete wall.
http://www.filecabi.net/video/planewall.html

Another websites that has answers: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

I think that this pretty sums it up.

 

WATCH THIS!!!! you arnt the only ones to bring these fine points up.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change

 

What the hell would a firefighter know about fires? Can't you get a credible source like David Ray Griffin, who is a theology professor?

 

I hope you are kidding...

Firefighters must go through classes about fire, structures, medical class, physics, everything related to fire and hazards. It's not just going in, put fire out and go out, it's a lot more. A theology professor....theology has almost nothing to do with structural fire. Also I did provide a link (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html) which also disaproves your conspiracies.

I trepidtrips, read my post and the links provided, you will certainly realise that Loose Change is a load of ****.

 

Dude I was joking.

 

Well get your pants pulled up folks we are about to go into Iran. If folks don't wake up.

 

That's what I was hoping. I'm sorry that I didn't realise your sarcasm.

 

I was being sarcastic...

Thanks for ignoring my point.. i was saying you post stuff pretty much like you know already what/who ..
You posted what you do ALL the time..on the SAME DAY.
How on earth would YOU know.
It almost does not matter about the event you just post a variation on the same theme.

Maybe i sould avoid sarcasm and just make my point:

e.g

This is what you posted on day one.. not knowing ANYTHING..apart from bombs had gone off.. [you even managed to get the amount of bombs wrong].

Nevermind who all the strange unpronounceable arabic names due to be presented as the "culprits" happen to actually be (legitimate democratic opponents of our client state leaders, or worse, of Israeli barbarity toward Palestinians perhaps?).


NO..that is not what happened...or why

http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p=Mohammad+Sidique+Khan&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-tab-web-t-1&fl=0&x=wrt&meta=vc%3D



It will suffice for more than a sufficient majority of the sheeple that they were told by "official" proclamation that something has been done. Status quo perceptions saved yet again, no need to actively scrutinise what's really going on in the halls of power.

http://hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1493123&postcount=7

All very interesting but absolute crap.

http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103144&page=1&pp=10

Well again you parrot the SAME logic you always do regardless of what is going on around you.. I doubt you even took the time to go any further than what was said in the initial report..mmmm maybe you did, but since you have to maintain your version of events.. chose to ignore it all.

Of course those that were found to be responsible can be [i am sure] chalked up to 'working for the goverment' 'puppets' 'mindless tools of a regime and PNAC..' well you know the drill , please do your finest or just copy and paste something you have posted before...touching on you favourite topics...as i said 'same old same old'.

I know you can make posts that i have said are 'very articulate'.. but just look at how quickly you come to your conclusions...and how wrong you are most if not all the time... You have a good grasp of the ins and outs..wich allows you to navigate through what is being said and just pontificate your own agenda..regardless that it is just plain WRONG.

Show you evidence it WAS OBL... well whatever i post you will dismiss.. so what is the point?.

Show your evidence [aside from your own thesis] that you are correct 100% ?

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/bin.laden.transcript/

it goes on and on and on

Notice how those apposed to this war seem to highlight the SAME kinda logic as he does..

Please make a inspiring and convoluted response ... as only YOU know how.


It would not be so bad if you aknowledged now and again..when YOU are wrong..heavens you can't do that though can you?....IF YOU COULD WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO MOVE ON.

 

I'm glad to see that some people hear don't think that the government isn't out to kill their own. To the rest of you, I hope you tell your theories to someone who lost a loved one in the attacks, and they have at you.

 

The K.K. there was no conspiracy on 9/11? What about the "19 hijackers"? Didn't they CONSPIRE to commit mass murder?

 

That's only one sympton of the problem. Our Constitution, Bill of Rights, and International law are being usurped and destroyed right before our blinded eyes. We're heading toward a one world dictatorship yet we're ONLY or mostly concentrating on 1 or 2 side-issues without seeing the elephant in the room. We're too preoccupied with focusing on the symptoms rather than the tumor itself. Yeah, it's time that folks wake up...and soon.

 

Stop playing with my words , you know what I meant.