2nd Amendment Protest

I figure George is on some of them thar perscription drugs himself....

The gun controversy is a decoy, the drug war is a decoy. What they REALLY want is a lot of "legal" excuses to invade people's privacy and get more folks on that "convicted felons" list...

 

The protest idea is good. Very good. Well, more of an affermation of rights, but still good. Givin ya credit there. Wish we could protest for something not ment to kill though. Dispite my hate for guns, standing up for rights is a good thing, man.
Surprised there is so much gun support on a hippie board.

 

That's because it's more important to hang onto our rights than it is to try to force folks to do what we WANT. If we spend too much time trying to force a thing like gun control, (or tobacco control, or drug control, or....) we become just like the "authorities" we despise. Hippys tend to be an intelligent lot, and we realize that a gun is no different than any other inanimate object. If I WANTED to, I could probably kill someone with my fire poker or my frying pan... The PROBLEM is PEOPLE with screwed up values. Some of us are wise enough to know the difference.

Also, an awful lot of hippys live on farms or out in the country where a gun simply becomes a very handy tool in some situations.

 

earthmother,
if we have no gun control guns end up in the hands of irresponsible people. They end up in the hands of the mentally unstable. They end up in the hands of children. It is not "intelligent" to think of guns as "just another tool." It is a weapon.
In many cases with gun crime, the crime/murder was not premeditated it was a crime of passion and oppertunity. If these people had to look to other means of expressing their violence, likely it wouldn't lead to death and they would take enough time to sort out their aggression in a more healthy way.
I don't see why you bring in tabacco and drug control. I don't think we necessarily have to despise all of our authorities either, but anyway...Tabacco and Drugs kill. They are not safe. If we don't do something to combat the huge tabacco industry, they will go unchecked and continue to influence minors to become smokers. How can you object to Tabacco control?? Its our right to smoke, sure. Its also our right to do everything we have in our power to do to protect our youth.

 

Thank you for your store bought and patent response. I would send you a form letter but I'm fresh out. Seriously tho, these are EXACTLY the mantras repeated over and over again by those who THINK they are doing the right things by trying to use force to "control" others.

I also have patent answers, but they are backed by common sense.
The arguement that if you "control" guns, then the "bad guys" won't "get their hands on them", has been used so much as to be worn out. I don't care HOW many people hand their guns "freely" over to the government "for their own good", there will be PLENTY of guns still around, and guess what? You figure it out, because I hate being redundant...

Now, I've been around a few mighty pissed off folks in my time, and I can see that if you are so mad that you are not thinking clearly any more, you really WANT to hurt someone, and you DON'T have a gun, so what? Do you think that everyone somehow miraculously will stop and think things thru rationally and shake hands, or do you suppose that a person so pissed off as to be "crazy" might not grab the first available object big and hard and pointy enough to be useful (i.e. handy for beating somebody's brains out).....

Obviously, gun bans, tobacco bans, the ridiculous drug laws with their equally ridiculous penalties are all healthy sized pieces of the same "we are your big brother, and we know what's best for you because you are not smart enough to take care of yourselves" mentality. It is ALL a farce. We live in the good old USA for crisesakes! What about things like "freedom" and "choice" and "respect"? You mean to tell me that we were just deluding ourselves all along, and we really ARE too stupid to figure out how to live without being totally controlled and punished? How many more rules must we follow? How many more laws do we need before we can be totally free?

Unfortunately, there will never be an end to the rules and laws that will be necessary in order for us humans to be considered "socially acceptable" creatures. Look at human history, as far back as it goes... Look at human nature. We tend to follow the path of least resistance, and it's easier to get angry and act out than it is to keep your cool. Just look at how your "average" human reacts in knee-jerk-reaction situation. We're BORN that way, and spend the rest of our lives trying our damndest to be something that does not come naturally to the collective human race. Some people have more ability or will to CONTROL themselves than others do. And some folks just aren't happy until they have "control" over their surroundings and their fellow humans. Kindness, compassion and respect, doing the RIGHT things, these are things that need to be CULTIVATED and worked on conciously. No amount of bans and laws and rules and opinions can take the place of common sense and common decency, and they certainly won't change the basic collective nature of the human species! So, shall we go forewards in an attempt to better ourselves, or shall we simply surrender to the idea that we are not much better than stupid animals that need to be kept in cages "for their own good"?

We CANNOT and SHOULD NOT "protect our youth". Too much "protection" can leave a young adult totally unprepared for the real world. Too much "protection" can DRIVE a naturally curious youth to experiment with things BECAUSE they are either forbidden or not properly discussed. They will do what they will do, regardless, but in the wrong "protective" environment they will simply lie and sneak, because to be truthful or open about certain subjects could lead to trouble... I have seen more ill-conceived notions and actions and bad feelings come along under the guise of "protecting our youth" than I can even count. And who is going to "protect" US? Our illustrious government? Oh my god, the sky is falling, we're all gonna die........... What about personal responsibility? Anyone?

 

I dont have any mantras. Im not a member of any organization for gun control or anything like that. I really don't know too much about what people are saying about these issues, I just have personal beliefs. They are not generic and regurgitated as much as you might think otherwise.

I also never said that we should not allow anyone to have a gun, or infringe on their rights as you say. I just think it is far too easy to get a gun. I think something should be done about that. Are these beliefs so wrong??

I think you are kind of preaching to the choir about personal responsibility. And you know, about protecting our youth. I wasn't implying that they should be sheltered and kept in the dark about serious issues. Im talking about actual protection from firearms and tabacco. Im talking about keeping our kids from blowing eachothers heads off and getting cancer. You can't change my opinion here.

You're right. This is the USA. We have all the rights in the world and we talk so much about freedom and we need to defend our rights etc... Most of us don't even know what real freedom is. We are so concerned with some of our trivial "rights" that they actually end up enslaving us...

 

"Hippys tend to be an intelligent lot, and we realize that a gun is no different than any other inanimate object."

Sorry, but how is that intelligence?? That just sounds like no capacity for discrimination...??

 

It's ALL about discrimination. A gun is an inanimate object. You can CHOOSE to use it as a tool, as a murder weapon, or to not use it at all. It takes a lot of common sense to make those choices intelligently.

whatshappenin23, I just don't think you are thinking things thru very well. Thus the seemingly "patent" responses, as MANY people don't think these things thru well...
HOW do you propose to "protect" our youth from themselves and the culture they grew up in? HOW do you propose to go about taking away the "criminal's" handguns? Calling all criminals!!! Do you think they will simply line up to hand them over willingly? Please think about the "HOWS" seriously, and grasp the fact that by trying to accomplish these things in the usual way, we could create much messier and bigger problems than the ones we are trying to control.

Sorry about the bold lettering, I can't seem to fix it....

 

Don't Shoot Bwana,I'm coming out.

Sorry about the Black thing you guys, but that is my name Mr. Black- hyphin, other name, I played a joke on you and I knew you would blow a racial gasket.Ha Ha
But i am a changed man.

I have been cruising the net doing some research and I came across a site "What if the gun nuts are right"?
It is a matter of OUR freedom and our choice to have or have not. I have changed my view on firearms only on the right to own vs. someone elses agenda of how i should live.

But, here I go,gun owners want their 2nd amendment rights,but some are in favour of smoking bans because they believe they have a right to dictate smoking policies in bars and restaurants for public safety. But they are not willing to ban guns or as i call it "accident prevention" in the name of public safety.

The liberals say to others:.....It is a world of freedom,for me
but not for thee.
My freedom is important,yours isn't
I can handle freedom,
But you can't.

And yes I did loose 5 friends thats no joke.

 

I actually think MOST people are OK with allowing folks to CHOOSE, but the "authorities" don't think so. We were actually given the "opportunity" to attend public meetings about a proposed smoking ban.... Of course, I already knew the decisions had been made and the "public" meetings were simply to make an appearance of someone actually caring or listening to our ideas and opinions. A show only. Once the meetings were done, they simply changed the smoking laws anyhow. It will be the same thing with the guns. They will pretend they want our input (maybe), and then they'll ban them anyhow. BAD MISTAKE.

 

well, I think its safe to say that a majority of people support the smoking bans.

 

You missed the point.What i meant to say is, the smoking issue is an example,people will rail how freedoms are being taken away in one breath, and the next breath they'll give reasons for the government to take away another persons freedom.

 

Thanks recklessrick. I really DON'T think it's safe to say that the majority support smoking bans. Maybe the majority of people who don't give a rats ass about freedom of choice...

Now, I can't stomach cigarettes, but I'm not about to tell someone they can't smoke them, unless I'm choking to death from it. RESPECT is something that is all but forgotten when people insist on making laws and rules banning things that are more a matter of opinion than anything else. Taking away people's freedom to chose is not respect. Neither is smoking in an enclosed space around others who can't deal with it. Taking away everybodys guns is not respect. Neither is shooting people. There is a middle ground here that an awful lot of folks can't stand to be on for some reason. People who need to have an extraordinary amount of control over others in order to be happy, no respect there either. I get accused of being a nut simply because I can dislike something and still not have to have everybody else doing what I do. But, HOW THE HELL is ANYBODY supposed to straighten out ANY disagreements or problems in this world if it's all about a shoving match to see who can get their way and there is no room for compromise...?

I hate war, I hate killing. I don't like guns. I don't like bombs, I don't like drunks either, or what certain drugs do to people. But I BELIEVE IN FREEDOM TO CHOOSE. And I believe in having RESPECT FOR OTHERS and TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for the things I do. In fact those are the only things I WOULD control if I could. And so if people think it's just OK to fight and kill, or to smoke cigs, or to get drunk or WHATEVER, far be it from me to get in the way of their KARMA.

If you can't stand guns, don't hang out in dangerous places or with people who have them. If you don't like cigarette smoke, don't let folks smoke them in YOUR HOUSE, don't go places where they are being smoked, stay out of the SMOKING section of the restraunt for example. If you don't like drunks, don't let folks drink at YOUR HOUSE and don't go out to bars. It's really very simple actually. Respect our differences and respect each other. FUCK a bunch of bans and unnecessary laws. Just more excuses for "big brother" to have their nose up your ass. I think they pretty much figured out how to live a LONG time ago (10 commandments anyone?) and the rest of it is just extra manipulative baggage.

 

"Dont hang out in dangerous places or w/people who have them." Hard to do when you live in a dangerous area and the people who have them are your neighbors/friends. As for smoking, 2nd hand smoke causes cancer. I don't understand why you can't consider the other side of the issue?? If you're a smoker and you can't stand people bitching about second hand smoke, then don't smoke indoors! What you're saying is that the people who are the most imposing on others should take every inch of their rights, and those who object should change their lives, and forfeit their rights to protest existing laws in order to accomodate those who have no regard for others. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

I actually wasn't responding to your point. I agree with you 100%. I was responding to what someone said about them having a public hearing about smoking laws but not taking what the public says seriously. Yea, that sucks. But my point was that most people are in favor of the bans anyway, so its not like you would get them overturned. I reached this conclusion because I figure MOST people are not smokers. and MOST people who aren't smokers don't enjoy 2nd hand smoke blown in their face while they're eating etc...and MOST people who don't smoke are not crusaders for smoking rights. So...If all these things are true, which i believe them to be. Then the logical conclusion would be that most people would support the smoking bans.

 

Also, with regards to smoking, you are overlooking some things...Cigarettes are addictive. Tabacco companies take in billions and are highly immoral. They trap their customers into being lifelong supporters of their enterprise. "Freedom" does not just mean freedom granted by the state. It means freedom from everything that binds you. Nicotene addiction, or any addiction for that matter, keeps a person from being truly free. It lowers their quality of life, it brings social stigma, it lowers their life expectancy...There is nothing good about it. Its a trap. Why invest all our energy into making sure someone has the right to smoke when and where they want, when they are only hurting themselves and those around them. I mean, you have to draw the line somewhere when trying to protect these abstract ideas of freedom.

 

"And so if people think it's just OK to fight and kill, or to smoke cigs, or to get drunk or WHATEVER, far be it from me to get in the way of their KARMA."

But you do realize that by NOT getting in the way you are disregarding the rights of those who do not wish to be killed, not wish to have 2nd hand smoke, etc...Why would you so fervantly wish to protect the right of the afformentioned fighters, killers, smokers, drunks and not care about the people affected by the consequences of their actions??

 

No, actually what I'm saying is what I said. If people RESPECTED each other, and were given the FREEDOM OF CHOICE, like the choice to have "smoking" and "non smoking" areas, instead of business owners being TOLD they must keep smokers out of their establishments altogether and not give them their own spot... It reminds me of the days of "move to the back of the bus", or "no blacks allowed"... It simply is another small way of desensitizing the masses to the idea of being told what to do and what to think.
NOTHING makes any sense if you follow their rules. Honest. Tobacco is legal, pot isn't legal but alcohol is. LEGAL drugs kill more people in a year than guns... WAY more people are in jail for drugs than gun crimes... Pollution in the air OTHER than tobacco smoke is ignored or "delt with" by a system that moves at a snails pace, while we get all caught up in demonizing something that has been consumed by humans for centuries... OR demonizing an object that has been used by humans ever since the invention of gun powder...

 

well Ive been in restaurants that have smoking and non smoking sections and generally, they both smell pretty much like smoking sections. It would be nice if we could all respect eachother but not everyone is going to buy into that. Thats an idealist point of view, not really very viable. Look, people CHOOSE to smoke. no one ever chose to be black. Thats actually very insensitve of you to compare the two things. The fact is, smoker or non smoker, you're allowed to go anywhere you want. You just can't light up anywhere you want! Its not prejudice at all. Its about creating a healthier more pleasant environment. You tihnk we should just go back to having people smoke on airplanes etc..??
Yea tabacco has been consumed by humans for centuries...but guess what, a little thing called modern medicine has changed things a bit. We now know that smoking is deadly, and if it doesn't kill you it will lower your quality of life. Im not trying to demonize tabacco, but you can't convince me that the tabacco industry isn't a sleezy one, and that the people who make millions off of customers who they are killing aren't pretty damn disgusting. You just seem to be ignoring a lot of things and sticking to your guns (ideals) and not really looking at the bigger picture.
You can't use the jail system to back up your beliefs. Our criminal justice system lets some people slide and won't cut others a break, and yes its racist.
You seem to think that just because I support gun control and smoking bans, that I am a big fan of big brother getting into all our business and completely running our lives. You're making it about something that it isn't. I am one of the biggest critics of the government and them invading our privacy, but it doesn't mean that I will support "smoking rights" or anything else just out of spite.

 

I agree it should be up to the owner of an establishment to decide weither or not to allow smoking if you don't like it you dont have to do buisness there I mean seriously there's too many stupid ass rules in this country at the rate their going it wont be long before some dumbass wants to legislate which hand you wipe your ass with