2020 Election

I'm lashing out at you, because you're telling me, basically, "love it or leave it," which is as fascist a motto as they come. It's really none of your business which country I choose to live in, and I am free, as an American, to have a low opinion of Americans.

And yet, I still want to live here. Because I was born and raised here, and it's my country. Of course, this shouldn't even be the topic of discussion. It was disingenuous of you to bring it to the table.

It does matter who we choose as an alternative to Trump, where the Middle East is concerned. Because Democrats like Joe Biden can't be trusted thereof. He's every bit as hawkish as Trump is. The only difference is everyone knows, deep down, that Trump is a child. But Joe has the wool pulled over everybody's eyes with his slick, polished demeanor. If Joe wants war in Iran, then we can all be comfortable knowing it's a responsible decision. And the powers that be have wanted this war for so long, it doesn't make one bit of a difference whether it's an establishment Republican I mean Democrat like Joe Biden or someone like Trump. They'll get it.

But of course, Americans don't really care about that. That's happening in some far off land. Sure, there will be a few protests, but nothing major. As far as we're concerned, our military can commit total genocide. No one's going to go out of their way to stop it.

 

Please share. I'm planning on voting for him and I would love to know his stance on foreign policy; especially now that the world has seen Trump take a dump with Syria, and with Russia seemingly present in the region. I'm honestly wondering now that you've mentioned it.

Here is an interesting article:

Syria conflict: What do the US, Russia, Turkey and Iran want? | DW | 23.01.2019 from January

 

Would the results of 2016 been the same had Sanders supporters not been robbed of the nomination? While they were feeling the Bern Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the Clintonistas were busy rigging the outcome. Poor Bernie drew huge standing room only crowds and Hillary got the delegates.

Many Sanders supporters sat out the election hapless victims of a process pitted against them from the get go.
Americans know when they've been rooked.

When a major political party opens it's fall campaign having just witnessed the theft of the party's nomination and then proceeds to espouse it's virtues as a party this isn't exactly the materials nor foundations for success.

 

I don't know if there's any excuse for not voting this time around. We've seen the result it produces and lived with the elephant in the room...

What don't you like about Joe Biden? I see you like Sanders. What if Biden picks up and tells us he's into an intelligent healthcare policy or something? I feel like there are still a lot of what ifs at this point.

Are you saying you won't vote if Bernie loses in the primaries?

 

Well, he voted for the Iraq war. He's very pro-Israel, despite all of their abuses. What more do you need to know? He's supports billionaires 100% and is just a member of the status quo and the establishment. If the powers that be want a war, he's going along with it. He's just the same old same old, a Washington politician. They've been waging war for years.

It takes someone like Bernie Sanders to say, "No, enough of that." You won't get it with Biden.

Biden's position on healthcare: "I don't have time to come up with a policy." He just wants to cut social security and medicare. Seriously, all he's got going for him is that he's not Trump. How many times has he lost the nomination, and now he's the man because he's "not Trump."

 

Yes, be thankful that as an American you are free to have low opinions of Americans and share them on social media. So are Nazis. But you're too quick to separate yourself from the rest of us, as being free from sin and entitled to cast stones. I was commenting on your statement "There is nothing anyone could possibly say to convince me that Americans are good people. Most of us won't even turn out to vote, and the ones that do will vote for someone who gives two shits about the poor." What's wrong with that statement? The same thing that's wrong with racism. It makes sweeping generalizations about large populations on the basis of selective information about the negative traits of some. I asked you if you know of a better national population elsewhere, to see where you think these saints reside. I can certainly think of countries with nastier records than ours: North Korea, Russia, China, Venezuela, Myanmar, the late Islamic Caliphate. etc., come to mind. The Scandanavian countries have much to commend from the standpoint of social programs, but they've had the luxury of U.S. military protection. If you follow the news, western Europe is experiencing an upsurge of nativist nationalism and ant-immigrant sentiment not unlike our own. Humans everywhere are a mix of good and bad, and political circumstances and politicians can bring out the best and worst in us. Your extreme misanthropic sentiments are of little value in guiding rational political behavior.

As for Biden being "every bit as hawkish as Trump is", we'll see. Biden does come from the hawkish wing of the Democrat Party, and as Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations committee was supportive of military action in Iraq, which I think was a mistake. Trump seems to be making noises about more military involvement in the Middle East, this time against Iran. His Secretary of State and his National Security Advisor have been notorious hawks on this issue, as is his buddy Bibi Netanyahu. Biden comes from an administration that successfully concluded a treaty with Iran that Trump tore up. So I see no basis for your claim, unless you mean that any willingness to use military power in international relations is per se "just as bad". What would be even worse would be to use it recklessly or impulsively, or to further domestic policy agendas. That's what I'm afraid the Donald is getting ready to do. It would also be bad to turn a blind eye to Soviet actions in Ukraine, China's expansionism in the South China Sea, and North Korea's provocative missile testing. How would the Bern deal with these? I never thought of Biden as having a "slick, polished demeanor." I always thought of him as something of a gaffe prone dufus, but sincere, with a big heart and a good record as champion of the working man. I fully expect him to put his foot in it in a political culture hypersensitive sensitive to words and nuance. If we let the perfect become the enemy of the good, we'll rue the day.

 

I agree with you. Americans are more interested in who is winning the next sporting event, who is going to be he next American idol winner, when does the next Star Wars movie come out. Fuck!. . . . Now when does Burning Man begin?

 

No, I'm not saying that however fast forward a few months then observe the process, if at that point you see someone generating huge crowds, energy and enthusiasm and yet someone else is being delivered delegates then you've witnessed another rigged convention. If you see this beware my friend and lookout , it's the back room deal brokers at work depriving the rank and file their due process and voice of their votes.

 

prejudice has come out of the closet. The main promoter is trump.

I live in California, and you are somewhat correct about Arnold. Arnold became unpopular, among republicans, because of his environmental views. In actuality, he was more of a democrat.

 

It isn't your place to tell me what to be thankful for.

The US is every bit as nasty as the countries you mentioned. So many innocent people have suffered and died at the behest of the United States of America. Not as many of our own people, no. No, we're treated to ubiquitous sex, more food than we can possibly consume, the latest technology, toys, cars, happy families (that don't get their heads blown off,) etc., while our guns and our bombs are incinerating villages, maiming little children. The way we live knowing what our government is doing is nothing short of obscene.

I know how Bernie wouldn't deal with those things. He wouldn't tell us to go to war because some oil man funded his campaign, unlike Joe Biden.

 

My place? Sounds a bit hoity toity. Is it your place to call me a Nazi with no basis? Be that way. Sit in your corner and pout. I won't waste further time dealing with your opinions, which I think are mostly sour grapes.

 

Bernie voted for the AUMF the legal basis for our all of our undeclared wars since 2001.

H.J.Res. 64 (107th): Authorization for Use of Military Force -- House Vote #342 -- Sep 14, 2001

 

Bernie also has a long and curious history of opposition to gun control, including the law that gives the weapons manufacturers the unique status of immunity from lawsuits for deaths and injuries caused by their product.
Bernie Sanders' awkward history with guns in America
2016: Bernie Sanders among top 25 of Congressional recipients of NRA donations - Democratic Underground
How the National Rifle Association helped get Bernie Sanders elected
Sanders’ gun votes again a potential liability among Democratic base
Bernie Sanders’ NRA report card: D-minus is most recent grade
Bernie Sanders Parrots the NRA
NRA's Support Helped Elect Bernie Sanders to Congress in 1990 - Tea Party News
His recent turnabout after the New Zealand massacre can be seen as damage control before the election campaign. Bernie Sanders: "We Must Follow New Zealand Lead" on Assault-Rifle Ban | National Review

 

Obama was not even in office 6 months and talk of Biden being the next guy was happening. It's how the elite rigged system works. As soon as the 2016 election is over they talk 2020. It's a never ending of cycle of speculation and fighting. What has he really done? He waited his turn and he is known to be friendly to the billionaire class that is all. Hillary was the same way and was clear of that in interviews. She waited in line and it's her turn so it's her or no one.

I don't dislike him I am just disappointed. Americans really don't have a choice in voting compared to Europeans nations. We have two right wing parties and the illusion one is left since the other is so far right they openly accept Nazis. Since Democrats don't they are liberal. This is just not the case.

 

I'm not sure much of this post is really relevant to the point I was making - I wasnt really talking about how Democrats should/can win elections. I was discussing how they appease Republicans once they take office and how I agree with Balbus that Republicans have gone too extreme to appease. I'm not sure it's fair to use "but Democrats need to win!" as a response to every criticism lobbied against the Democratic party.

But anyways-

Surely a political science class would address not only politics in America, but in comparison to the rest of the world as well? And the simple fact is, the word "moderate" loses meaning in a country skewed so far to the right. You prove my point by bringing up the use of the word socialism (which Bernie has not used. He nuances it) and prison voting rights. Shouldnt a moderate be able to understand the difference between Venezuela/Cuba/etc style socialism and European style social democracies? Shouldnt a moderate be capable of researching the fact that some states and many countries do give prisoners voting rights, shouldnt they be capable of researching the pros and cons of this rather than automatically taking a right leaning stance without researching it? Shouldnt a moderate be able to look at single payer healthcare and the fact that every other country has a universal healthcare system, and then look at America's broken system, and be able to make a sound judgement on which system is actually the radical system?
Moderates in America are actually right leaning and they've taken the Democratic party with them

I dont want Trump anymore than you do but Trump doesnt exist in a vacuum. This country had a lot of issues before Trump that allowed someone like Trump to come to power in the first place, and these issues will have to (hopefully) be addressed eventually. And it isnt about enacting policies that are left leaning or right leaning or radical or conservative or whatever sort of pedantic description exists, it is about enacting policies that help the American people versus corporations and big money interests. Both parties have failed at that. The republicans are worse, no doubt, but the Democrats havent been great either. And from what I can tell, when describing a politician as a moderate or as a centrist, it generally tends to just be a way of saying they wont rock the boat too much or go against monied interests.

 

...

 

I read about 5 of those articles where Biden talks to an interviewer. I get a really good feeling knowing that someone has their shit together. That's the feeling I'm getting now. It seems drastically fantastic in comparison to what we have now.

He sounds really good e.g. :