2020 Election

oh... i thought I stumbled into Stoned Thoughts for a second... lol.

 

I guess when I see that it makes me think. I guess a young person could try it, see that it doesn't hurt, and then try other things thinking that they will similarly not have negative consequences. It's like my friend that died of a heroin overdose. He clearly thought he could handle shooting up heroin. But of course, we always can say correlation is not causation. But if I'm that kids father... I'm going "I sure wish he wouldn't have gotten into drugs". I think that's where Joe Biden is coming from. I trust him anyway, even if he isn't very open minded about cannabis. I think that we should form our opinions based on his lengthy track record and experience in the Senate from 1973 to 2009. That's a fuckload of experience he has that Donald Trump does not.

 

Any thoughts on Biden? I'm not happy about him joining personally...

 

so, does the subpoena power even work? I'm not liking waiting around and watching people clown the federal government ignoring their subpoena. I hope they get arrested!

 

Panic

Do you mean black people?

I mean in an American context it doesn’t seem to fit in with other groups that are not connected to race so can you clarify.

Well that would mean white people?

Are you just pushing that alt-right lie about the oppression of straight white men?

I wouldn’t say this was a ‘class’ it’s about propaganda and that is nothing new. But again this is not a ‘class’ you usually get such people within movements and associated with those that have the wealth to pay for it, an example is what has gone on with the promotion of right wing, neoliberal and ‘free market’ ideas through wealth sponsored think tanks (Heritage, Cato) media groups (Murdoch, Sinclair) and astroturfed political movements (tea party, taxpayers alliance).

Not sure who you are talking about? This would best describe the power of wealth, inherited power to influence but you seem to be trying to associate it with politics and a political class which is hereditary, can you explain your thinking?

To me Trump would seem to be the most crony of politician with his children and friends in positions of power.

A very simplistic reading of history for example Augustus Caesar was able to rule as Emperor (after a bloody civil war) and he died in his bed and was able to hand on power to his adopted son Tiberius and the Roman state lasted hundreds of years after Julius Caesar was some assassinated. And the thing is that the Roman Empire still was prosperous even under such people as Caligula.

So that doesn’t make sense

Yes we haven’t had a global monarchy but we have had large regional entities ruled by dynasties or individuals of emperors, monarchs, caliphs etc, so not sure what you argument is?

You seem to be disappointed that we are not all ruled by some such dictatorial ruler, why would you want that?

 

Panic

This was your reply to the question - People should change their minds over time when evidence tells them to do so.

But as examined above your ideas don’t seem that modern in fact they come across as rather old and racist.

And it doesn’t seem to stand up to even the slightest examination I mean who is calling people an "Oppressor Class" or "Victim Class" other than you and some alt-righters?

It doesn’t seem to make much sense other than to be about creating or perpetuating divisions

 

Mel

I wish I could say I do but I often feel like I’m just groping in the dark trying to find a diamond of insight that always seems to allude me.

There is this horrible dilemma – I think the US needs to change but I also think the Trumpian Republicans need defeating because they seem to have lost all interest in serving the people of US - other than their donors - and so seem quite happy to run the country into the ground (and Ginsburg can’t live forever).

Also I’m guessing the 2020 elections are going to be the meanest and dirtiest in history (and given the history of US elections that will be saying something) in which foreign players and an avalanche of money are going to be used to try and bury the Democratic runner.

I see MeAgain’s angst, I don’t think Biden is what the US desperately needs but if he can win then fuck it if I was an American I would hold my nose and support him.

I remember this from the last Presidential run – there was a guy who came to the forum saying he supported Bernie Sanders, but that if he didn’t get the Democratic nomination he would then vote for Trump, that seemed like maddness to me it would be like burning down your house because a builder put on a front door you didn't like.

I’m a policy guy rather than a personality person, and look at political movements rather than individuals and as I’ve said many times I think the Democrats lost their way in the 90’s with the move toward third way neoliberalism but even they would be better than the present day Republicans.

But I’m hopeful things are changing on the left and that if Biden does get the nomination the Party can pull him and policy to the left.

But at the moment and if you really pushed me I’d say that if I had to choose it would be Elizabeth Warren, but again these are early days and I could change my mind.

 

No, the reality that an old straight white man like Biden can announce his candidacy and lead all polls 4 days later against a black man, a gay man, a Native American, a Latino with a Celtic last name, and more, is the reason of white privilege and toxic masculinity! Yes, I took a “woke” pill in case you are wondering

 

White what? I thought white privilege didn't exist.

 

Could you check the packaging? I think you might took a suppository instead

 

6

Do you means 'is the result of' rather than 'is the reason of'?

 

I ment laxative btw. But the meaning seems clear!

 

Biden is just a professional politician. I can't stand politicians. He puts on his best face and kisses the babies, and that's all he does. I don't see one shred of evidence that he actually cares deeply about this country on a personal level. It's always just the same routine with him. Big smiles and posing for the camera. MEH.

 

There's also no guarantee at all he might win. So voting for him mainly out of safety because he supposedly has a better chance than Sanders is not that much of a safety vote at all. It's just a gamble to beat the other party which will bring: a continuation of the same old status quo (IF he would win). I'd rather vote for the person who really represents some of my most important principles, and who actually still also has a viable chance.

 

I read today that Hillary Clinton was leading Obama by as much as 30% in polls this time in 2007 in some states. It is still early days and I think to declare a vote for a candidate other than Biden is a vote for Trump, as at least one person in this thread has done, is really nonsensical when we're a year out from primaries - not to mention antithetical to how a healthy democracy should function

But i dont really get the concept of voting for the person you think will win anyways. If everyone voted for the person who best represented them then the person who best represents the most people would have the best chance of winning anyways

 

Hillary was far more qualified than Barack.

 

Also an unrelatable technocrat who consistently proved to be solely competent at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Name one politician that has ever cared about the American people.

 

"Best represented" is the catch. To me, that means not necessarily the person I like the best or most agree with (that would be Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar), but the person who can do the best job in office--not necessarily the same thing. Probably my idea of who that is would be very different from yours. A precondition to doing the best job is winning. Forgoing a candidate who looks like a winner in favor of a long shot sentimental favorite risks the alternative--four more years of the chaos President. It doesn't necessarily follow that if everyone voted for the person who best represented them they'd be voting for the one who would have the best chance of winning, because "best represented" is in the eye of the beholder. Trust me, in this part of the country, most folks I know don't hunger for a slew of radical programs.

The circular firing squad is already forming, and three of the candidates have fired the opening salvos--at Biden. We'll see how that goes.I'm not sure that even an unhealthy democracy can survive in the present polarized political environment.