Zendik

You know waht they say about power corrupting.....

Anyway. I remember while at the farm how they viewed outside art and music saying that the likes of Eric Clapton were "Hacks" and how they went on about the commercialism of it all and how they looked at me with disgust when I listened to a Black Crows tape I had.

Now they're hooking up with Lynard Skynard???

 

I can't believe they could be so hypocritical as to trash all non zendik music then invite DeathKultur bands to their land to make money!!
I think all these bands should know what they are getting into.....

 

My entire last paragraph (I think I didn't go back and read it and hell if I formatted it right god I need more {or less} sleep) was utter inflammatory nonsense meant to anger the cheespuffs on the other side of the fence

 

Yeah, I kind of figured that. My response is also pretty rhetorical. I'm just really interested in knowing what sorts of mental games people like Arol use to live with themselves.

 

it's fun to be an asshole, maybe that is why they went to the darkside and started destroying the minds of innocent folk who just wanted to contribute to the good things they were supposed to do

 

The late Wulf Zendik will be signing his book at a Philadelphia-area Barnes & Ignoble:

http://www.zendik.org/musfest/zactbm.html

Jerry Garcia will be serving punch and cookies in the cafe section of the store. Pope John Paul II may also appear (schedule permitting).

 

Anyone wanna bet on how long they can live on Wulf's writting. I say if they build a giant statue of him and start calling him The Great One, with a little propaganda they could have a pretty good run.

 

Well I have been gone for a while and I see this thread still lives on. If you can call it living that is. It seems that this thread has degenerated into pure name calling. Some thing which I thought was beneath you all. It is sad to see I was wrong. If you ask me (as an outsider) you are behaving as bad as you accuse the zendiks of behaving.

Just a thought.

 

well as moderator I kinda stood back and watched this continuous bashing - It hasn't broke down into a sniping match amoung members so I've tried to stay out of it - but well - this is a task to read - I don't like reading it and all the negative energy that's been posted herein -
What say you shall we close this thread and go on to more constructive things Or are the bashers having too good a time to give it up ?
Need some feedback - this is not my forum - I've got my own personal forum where I tend to keep it more on track than here - I do Not set the tone here - you do.

 

The difference is that we are not saying we have the only answer to solving the worlds problems and getting literally hundreds of people to come and stay at our place under what most of us who were actually there consider to be misleading circumstances, in order to build up the property (which is not owned by the group but by Arol herself) and then sell it off only to start all over again. The reason this thread has gone on so long was that when it was started there was literally no place at all that you could get info about Zendik Farm except for the official Zendik site. Now that postzendik.com is up that is no longer true so... I think that the negativity you feel here is because those of us who gave our lives to the place feel we were screwed over and there is alot of evidence to support that. This illustrates one of the most fundamental dangers of a communal group. That the group might be taken over by one or a handful of people for their own gain above the good of the group. Close up the thread if you want. I do think that since it is like the 5th most viewed thread on the whole hipforums site says something about the need it has fulfilled and may continue to fill if the thread stays open. Anyway just my opinion. I gave up everything I had to go to the farm twice and left both times broke and homeless. I just do not want to see others end up in the same situation as me.

 

I think that it's important that this thread is not closed.


While there may be some unneeded negativity here, there is also a lot of valuble information for anyone who might be considering going to Zendik. I think most people are smart enough to be able to separate the "name calling" from the facts.

This thread is one of the few substantial sites that comes up in a google search except for the official Zendik site. It's important that people be able to see more than one side of the Zendik issue.

And as Raha wrote, this is one of the most viewed threads on the whole Hip forum. Wouldn't it make more sense to close some of the many threads full of mindless drivel that you can find in the Hip forums?

Also, just because something shows some "negativity" doesn't mean it should be silenced. It's a big cop out to want to try to make everything happy happy, and bury your head in the sand while injustice and explotation go unnoticed!

 

Also, Dalamar If you're still into Zendik after reading this thread, I suggest that you might want to go there and give the place a try.

You might really like Zendik, but whether you end up liking it or not, you'd be getting off the fence and at least making some kind of a stand - so if it doesn't mess up your life too much (like end a good relationship or something) then why not give ZF a try?

It's easy for you to shame people for "name calling," but the fact is that you know very little about Zendik or about people's experiences there, so I think you should go live at Zendik yourself for a while and get back to us

 

I think the initial point of this thread was to answer people's questions about Zendik, along the lines of "would it be a good idea if I packed up my stuff and moved to Zendik Farm?" or "is this rumor I heard about Zendik true?" Maybe it's not all that productive or interesting to keep flinging jabs at the Zendiks, but on the other hand, this thread has, quite literally, more info. on the Farm than anything else on the internet (as far as I can tell, and not counting the Zendiks' own website). As Greenhornet and Rasha said, it's important that people know what they're getting into before getting involved with the Zendiks. So I think people should at least be able to continue reading it, even if no new posts are allowed (the discussion is certainly petering out...and I for one don't really have much more to say about the Zendiks).

 

While I would like to see a more balanced debate I personally think locking the thread goes against the free speech atmosphere that makes this site special. While I think the thread is getting too negative I don’t know that it has gone so far out of bounds as to warrant locking it either.

rasha and Greenhornet

I in no way want you to feel as though I don’t understand your feelings or your beliefs. You guys both have obviously been wounded by your experience at ZF and you have a lot of negativity against the zendiks and perhaps rightly so! Because of the blatant hostility, it is hard for me to sift through the emotion and get at the facts. In many parts of this thread people were getting into real nitpicky issues. It makes it sound like you have an ax to grind (like a disgruntled employee)rather than a legitimate complaint. Again I am not saying that this is true I am just saying that is the perception some people might get from reading parts of this thread..

As you pointed out Greenhornet I have never been there so I don’t know what ZF it is like. But perhaps you don’t know either. At least not anymore. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you both said it was a long time ago since you were there. Do you make no room for the possibility that things may have changed since then? Just as people grow and change so too can groups and organizations.

It is just something to think about.

Sometimes when you beat up on something too much you weaken your own message and strengthen the other.

 

Actually I was there twice. Once for two years and then again a few years ago for 6 months. A friend of mine went for a few weeks about a year or so ago as well. I choose to leave both times. I am in touch with at least a dozen people who spend at least 6 months there and many who lived there for years. I literally saw hundreds of people come and go in the time that I was there. I saw friends kicked out for no other reason than Arol or one of her "Inner Core" did not like them or dared to disagree with them about something.

If you want a balanced debate then where are the current residents of Zendik Farm? I would be more than happy to hear their side. Remember I was "their" side. I stood out on the street and sold the magazines. I was a believer. I have not given up on the idea of community. I even like most of the systems the Zendiks use. Not everything I have to say about them is negative. I will give them credit where it is due, but I will also give my honest opinion about where Zendik Farm is flawed if for no other reason than to show others that are building community where to watch their step. I understand that you have not been there. Maybe you should go and find out for yourself.

"Bring me the head of Jerry Garcia!" - Arol Wulfing

 

BTW - locking a thread does not make it disappear - it makes it only so that it can no longer be postedon.
Course with no new posts it would be less noticable - a person may have to scroll onto another page to find it.
I am not against free speech - BUT this is the most negative continuous thread I have ever seen in the communal living forum. Personally I always try to find a positive or laugh at myself to take the edge off an answer as I try to help others come to their own - not convince them that other than what I perceive is right must therefore be wrong.

Unless consensus come back to let it die - it will stay alive.... on the other hand - if it gets out of control please throw a message my way - for my own space, I may not be reading it.

 

Of course there's some negativity in the Zendik thread: it's a controversial issue. We're not talking about how to raise goats. A lot of people had a lot of intense experiences at Zendik (both positive & negative) and there are strong emotions surrounding the issue. What ever happened to honesty? Why do the conservatives always seem to feel they have to be so damn mean and nasty while the liberals or leftists or progressives or whatever you want to call them feel you have to be dogone nice and positive all the time? Why not just be honest and work things out in a sincere fashion?


There's a broader and more balanced discussion of everything Zendik and communal at Postzendik.com for those who are interested.

 

Well...
When I see ZF advertising for their music fest I can't help but to remember all the rotten things they have said about non zendik music. Perhaps this is a long healing process for us that have been posting here, I don't know....
I really don't see a reason for closing the thread with threads about "what cum tastes like" and even pot being discussed. I figure if I don't like or want to hear about certain things I just won't click the link but that's me.
Not once has anyone from ZF come here and say, "we're working on these issues". Or even a sorry for what happened to you guys?????
I wonder how many people will read their zine or see their shows and think that ZF is everything they were looking for only to be treated as we were. People that were there for ten, fifteen, twenty years have left, can you guys imagine? One doesn't get a paycheckor retirement pay after all this time they have to rebuild their lives from scratch while looking at their forties, why? Seems like a huge move.
Is it not right to discuss why people are not allowed to be with their kids or how existing relationships are torn apart when people buy into zendiks website and zines and go there hoping for a better life?
Lives are being played with at ZF and, well, I don't think it's right. Maybe we should throw in the towel and forget about being hippies too..........

 

Dalamar writes:

I was never damaged by Zendik! If you sense any hostility it's because I feel let down by the Zendiks and by so many other hypocritical entities in society today. I just want to let people know that they should approach Zendik or any other organization which claims to have the answers, knowing more than just that organization's propaganda.

I want to help expose any frauds I encounter so that people might create something real and positive as an alternative and not be snooked. I think your characterizing us as these bitter, damaged people is unfair and untrue and quite patronizing.

 

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