Zendik

Unfortunately, the preceeding view doesn't show the magnificent high-heeled black leather (represented in white plaster on the statue) boots that Fawn is wearing

 

The spirit of Zizek’s point (which I might have articulated badly in my last post) is not “sit around and do nothing, because we might be wasting our time if we try to do something,” but rather, “let’s not pat ourselves on the back for doing something when in fact, we’re doing nothing at all, or even making the initial problem much worse...” I wish I could find the text for this remark (the guy has written so many damn books recently that it’s hard to keep up with him), but I think the context was an analysis of the post-9/11 period...where the Bush Administration proclaimed, “we’ve got to do something...it would be criminal to do nothing after the attacks.” And so they did something: bombed Afghanistan, invaded Iraq...in a way that actually increases the chances of more terrorist attacks, rather than decreasing them. Then there are the reforms like checking people's shoes at airports, and instituting the "yellow alert/orange alert/red alert" system, which give the impression of "doing something" when actually they do nothing...

Zizek’s hero, for better or worse, is Lenin, and he’s written a lot about the necessity for taking the risk of committing a radical “Act”...he just wants to separate his notion of an authentic revolutionary act from what we might call obsessional neurotic “activity” (the obsessional neurotic = the guy whose whole life is a schedule of feverish activity, but activity designed to keep anything from changing substantially...).

 

It is good to know that there are some good people there. It is just too bad none of those people will come and post here. They could share their point of view with us I think it would be a great help.


I am taken back by the essay on their site. It makes it sound as though they want to create some sort of matriarchal system or something. That seems to contradict their earlier teachings (as I understand them anyway). Personally I do not think any one sex is better or worse at leading than the other.

 

SouthernBelle,

Sorry that nobody responded but this thread moves fast and questions are easily missed.
Yes, lesbian sex is allowed on the farm, but anal sex is not so that rules out most gay guy relationships. There are two openly bi guys on the farm and two openly bi gals there, although they are not into each other, go figure.

Sex is not open on the farm, at least the act isnt but you will be asked to talk about it the day after.

There was one situation where a female was having sexual problems so she would be chaperoned on a date by another female who would critique her activity, no pressure there!!

There were many threesomes/foursomes/moresomes but they were confined to the visitors section (the Yak shack in NC) no long time Zendiks were involved or probably even knew it was going on. Although they did rearrange the visitors and spread them throughout the camp later on.

They are really hung up on the sex issue and really need some therapy!!

 

Wait.. you mean they sent someone to watch her have sex and.. what, give her pointers as it was happening? What kind of sexual problem was she having that justified this (by Zendik logic)? I mean, whether it was technical or anxiety-related, could she not have simply found a more sensitive lover?

Eh.. no names, please.

p.s. I posted a response to southernbelle (it's on page 64), but I think it got lost in the xtina avalanche. Basically what you said, but long-winded.

 

You know, I think I knew her....

 

Threesomes and foursomes at Zendik? Man, that sort of thing never happened when I was at the Farm (or if it did, no one showed me the memo...). I never saw any "chaperoning" of dates either, but I can see how the Zendiks would think that's a great idea. Funny that the Zendiks have a reputation for being the "crazy hippie sex cult," when at any given time, it seemed like only the lucky few were getting any. If, as Wulf says, "your lie = your pain," I'd estimate that 99% of the Zendiks' pain boils down to sex...and the corresponding lie would be that they've figured out some revolutionary solutions in the sex dept., when it's just the usual boy/girl bullshit (boy/boy and girl/girl bullshit, as others have said, wasn't really covered at the Farm). Not that I have any revolutionary solutions of my own to offer...but of course, I don't claim to the world that if you follow me, I'll erase your pain...(on second thought, maybe I should start claiming this...guess I'll have to grow the beard first...)

Towards the end of my stay at Zendik, Arol got the bright idea that if we want to free ourselves from our corrupt Deathkultur sexuality, we should follow the example of bonobo chimps...which in practical terms meant (I guess) groping each other a lot...

 

Sorry to harsh your buzz, godless, but I got the bonobo treatment from Arol, too. The example we were given was that the bonobos engage in non-procreative sex to cope with stressful situations-- they're fighting over some fruit and things get rough, so they start rubbing on each other and eventually calm down and share the fruit peacefully. At the time we all nodded our heads and clucked at the apparent wisdom of these monkeys-- we saw their sexual habits as an affirmation of the "naturalness" of the Zendik lifestyle. We were told that there was a connection, so we saw it. Go figure.

Did they also tell you the story about how if you put five clocks next to each other their pendulums will all begin to swing in the same time? Or the one about the guy who hooked a plant up to a polygraph machine and thought about holding a match under one of its leaves? Anecdotes such as these were held up as "proof" of the scientific soundness of Zendik philosophy. Oy vey.

Unfortunately bonobos don't know how to walk in ankle-strapped wedge heels.

 

I could be wrong, Red, but I think the novelty during my stay was the move from mere monkey theory to actual monkey practice (which has left me, no doubt, with a bit of repressed monkey trauma). Here I’m thinking of the ritualized groping sessions that we did a few times, where all of us would get together in one room, pair up, and lightly stroke or pet each other, while Aera or Arol or somebody would direct us into a “metatrance” by asking us to imagine that we were animals in the jungle, or some such bullshit. I
guess the idea was to control our hankerin’ for conventional ho-hum Deathkultur sex by suggesting other “experimental” ways for us to get our rocks off. Oy vey, indeed.

I remember the pendulum theory and the "plants are people too" discourse, but I don't remember the point behind these illustrations. There was also (speaking of monkeys) an oft-repeated story about one monkey learning how to wash a potato and teaching one or two other monkeys how to do it, until all the monkeys were doing it...the point was that this is how the Zendiks might have some influence in the world outside the Farm. One monkey at a time. I don't know...I've forgotten a good deal of what I once learned from the Zendiks about Advanced Monkey Theory...

A message to the Zendiks: at all costs, keep the National Geographics away from Arol, because you never know what sort of lessons she’ll draw from them…

 

Actually all this stuff was taken from other places by Zendik.

The Hundredth Monkey Theory was based on scientific studies about monkeys in the Pacific. They got the theory from the general counter culture. This is in no way an original Zendik thought.

The theory of entertainment where pendulum clocks on a wall come into sychronization over time is not an original Zendik thought.

The plant thing is based on a book published in the 60's or 70's called the Secret Life of Plants.

In short, most of the stuff that you experienced at Zendik, including most of the philosophy, was stuff taken from many, many different sources. In fact since I left the farm I have been studying Wulf's philosophy as well as a large amount of philosophy from many other sources and have ran across numerous books and ideas that I know Wulf read and or was exposed to.

 

I recall the ero-socials, I think that's what they were called, but I was only a participant observer, so I missed out. And I recall the ape theory: how we highly evolved Zendika humans should model our sexual behavior on those horny apes. For some reason, during my months at Zendik I was less sexually motivated than at any time I can remember. I was even presented with opportunities that I otherwise would've welcomed, but didn't respond (very strange behaviour for a male bonobo chimp).



I'm not sure what turned me off. In the first place, I was a new person and therefore viewed as impure by the established Zendiks (I'll bet I'd've been viewed as a hell of a lot more pure if I'd been a comely 'girl)' But I think the real problem was that I felt that by engaging in sanctioned Zendik sex, I'd have given myself over to the Zendik system (a family that fucks together stays together). Also, their views on sex were so clinical that it didn't seem worth it somehow. It was as if Arol & Wulf were crank naturalists conducting experiments on our sexual behavior. You were even supposed to report if you masturbated (ero-solo) at the next morning work-list meeting (oddly, I rarely heard this solitary activity recounted at the meetings - I guess it's easy to keep a secret when you're the only person who knows.



Also, the condom prohibition worried me. What if a Zendik had AIDS and spread it to the rest of the chimps like wildfire, I fretted. When I voiced this concern, a Zendik told me that AIDS is an environmental disease that has nothing to do with HIV, that you get the disease from eating bad food and drinking New Orleans water, etc. This made my behaviour even less chimp like at Zendik

 

For those who have been following this discussion, a new, broader Zendik-related forum can be found at www.postzendik.com

If this thread, or the subject of Zendik and creative, sustainable communal living interests you, please stop by postzendik.com and join the fun!

 

Er... must this thread's momentum be usurped by your website?

 

We are not asking you to go there or to post there if you do not feel like it. I know you are having a good time bashing Zendik and you are welcome to go on with it here. This is a project that has been in the works for months and actually does not have anything to do with this forum or you. It was an invitation to those who have lived at the farm to participate in a variety of things. The forum is just the first step. If you don't like it then don't come, I could really care less.

 

Kids, come on, let's play nice. I think Red has a lot of interesting things to say about Zendik...and I'd much rather read intelligent "anti-Zendik" comments than unintelligent or uninformed "pro-Zendik" comments (not you, Rasha...you know what I mean). Speaking for myself, I've "jumped ship" because I can only allot so many minutes per day for screwing around on the internet, so lately, it's been going to the post-Zendik forum...but let's not fall into the Zendik logic of "you're either with us or against us..."

 

I think the problem is that this thread is kind of starting to fade out. It seems like all people want to do is beat up on the zendiks. There really isn’t any real debate going on here. It is all one sided. If you are pro zendik you will get your butt kicked. If you are against the zendiks everyone will agree with you. I have tried my hardest to convince some of the zendiks to come here. I thought Siah was my best chance to turn this into a balanced debate. However, we have to face the fact that if all you are going to do is hurl baseless accusations with no facts or story to back your self up with, why would they post here? Why would someone post here just to be abused?

 

Dalamar: I’d certainly like to hear what Siah or the current Zendiks have to say, too, but understand that the Zendiks are simply NOT INTERESTED in debating with outsiders about what they do and what they believe. This is because (a) they’re very busy and probably don’t have the free time for this sort of thing, (b) their whole lifestyle is based on cutting themselves off from the outside world....they think we’re basically all idiots, and one doesn’t waste one’s time debating with idiots (by “we” I mean the billions of us who don’t live at Zendik Farm), (c) every time they go out on the street to sell their stuff, they have to defend themselves against critics, scoffers, suspicious minds, so this stuff on Hip Forums is just more of the same old shit to them, and they’re probably pretty sick of it, (d) their belief system is based on a leap of faith, and not reason...you can’t really debate religious beliefs, because debate is essentially a pursuit of reason, not faith, (e) there’s got to be something in it for the Zendiks if they’re going to participate in this discussion...and if it’s clear to them that none of us sound ready to pack up our stuff and join the Farm, then I’m sure that they can’t imagine any point to joining the discussion. I’m not sure which of these five reasons is the primary one, but the point is, don’t hold your breath waiting for the Zendiks to jump into the discussion...

 

I don’t know if you are right about that or not. But, I sent Siah a couple PM’s and he seemed genuinely willing to discuss issues. I just don’t think he felt like he would be treated fairly my the forum members.

I will however keep trying to persuade them to participate.

I think the is something in it for the zendiks. Many people may read this thread and decide not to go there because of what’s posted here.