Zendik

you are somewhat correct, but I don't think I am any different than all of you having a personal grudge with the lies you were affected by at Zendik Farm!

 

Ok-this is the deal-FTNW has started a "project" , and he told me that he wrote this news letter all based on memory from something he read by the people at Zendik Farm-Is that legal??He also only used this nonprofit org. to....I guess I better not say-so what-but I really believed in him-like he really believed in Zendik Farm, and there are lots of people who will still be hurt by places and people like these guys-FTNW has the potential to make a difference, but he waists his time copying the people he hates???? I guess now that I have nothing to loose, I feel the need to stop people from making the same mistakes I did with this organization/person, or that perhaps he will change his motives and do the thing right-
Really-what's the difference between my posts and yours??? I know I can't join you all in Zendik bashing from personally being there, THANK GOD, but I am being affected by the scars they left on other people, who need to be discredited just the same!
Ya'll go on ahead, though-I've said all I care to, and I can see the problem Zendik Farm had with some of you guys, now, too!!

 

While there may indeed be many reasons to question the farm, that particular accusation has yet to be proved. Comments in that area have not gone beyond vague innuendoes and are right down there with mudslinging. Personally I think such unsubstantiated assaults are unfair. However, even if such accusations are true, that in no way validates your assumption that people who go to zendik farm “want” to be abused.

As far as I know he has. I do not recall reading anything where he has advocated for people to go to the farm.

Personally, I do not think there is anything wrong with adopting the positive aspects of a group or organization and building on that.

I do not zendik bash! I have listened to all the arguments made here and I doubt the zendiks follow the philosophy they state on their web site. However, I do not think they are an evil place to be avoided either. Obviously, lasting well over 30 years, some people must get benefit from the place. I think it is not a good place for me but, that does not mean that others won’t find value there.

On another note, I think it is in poor taste for you to identify another member of the forum by name unless he/she gave you permission to do so. Given the tone of you post I highly doubt that is the case. I hope that a mod will remove the name from your post. I do not think your hole post should be deleted as I am a firm believer in free speech but I think a mod should edit you post and blank out the name. While we may all have debates and even arguments with each other this kind of petty attack should be avoided. We should be better than that.

 

After looking at thier web page and doing a google search with the simple words zendik, fbi, cult......seems to say it all.



I just did a general search but even after looking at the web site to me this is a classic example of a place that a small tatical nuc. device would be a good thing and get the sorry selfish fucks off the planet. Cult seems to be the proper term and the world would be a better place if they were just ashes.......









AThe First Amendment Run Amok: Torture evidence still mounting, AND ...
[size=-1]... An up-to-date illustration of the colonel's point appeared in recently released
FBI documents from the naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. ...
www.paultopia.org/blog/2005/ 01/torture-evidence-still-mounting-and.html - 27k - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

THC Ministry community forums — THC-Ministry.net — Issues of ...
[size=-1]... the oil deal; FBI Admits: No Evidence Links 'Hijackers' to 9-11; Kill the Arab
Journalists ... (1 2); Mahmoud Ahmad and The Secret Cult; George W ... by Wulf Zendik; We ...
www.thc-ministry.net/forum/ archive/issues-of-war-and-peace-5/ - 30k - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

RINF.COM: Alternative Media Portal to Underground Multimedia, News ...
[size=-1]... of FBI infiltrated groups where then FBI informant planted ... from Rinf.com. The Legendary
Disinfo Cult Classic Webcast. Zendik Perspective With Fawn Wulf More >. ...
www.rinf.com/ - 73k - Feb 7, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

JSTOR: Forum: Interpreting Waco
[size=-1]... the "free love" practiced by individuals at Zendik Farm appeared ... of fear that the
David- ians, as "cult" members, might ... the na- tional press and the FBI to Waco ...
links.jstor.org/ sici?sici=1052-1151%2528199824%25298%253A1%253C1%253AFIW%253E2.0.CO%253B2-N - Similar pages[/size]

The Liam McEneaney Experience
[size=-1]... South of 14th street, I wonder if this means I've got an FBI file. ... We run into a
woman selling magazines for Zendik farm, the scary sex cult farm for ...
kidliam.blogspot.com/2003_03_01_kidliam_archive.html - 101k - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

DC Indymedia: newswire/16680
[size=-1]... No, Jenka, I am NOT whimping out. -Rogue In a world without truth, who knows the
difference anymore? See also: www.[b]zendik[/b].org. ... Can we say cult?
dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/16680 - 23k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

DC Indymedia: newswire
[size=-1]... Not only that the FBI decided that to effectivly destroy the Panther movement they
would have to ... Parent Article: Greetings from Zendik Farm. ... Can we say cult? ...
dc.indymedia.org/newswire/ get_comments/index.php?limit_start=45960 - 65k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from dc.indymedia.org ][/size]

​

I Dropper - Beat Fanatic - Digitally Demented
[size=-1]... Circles, Crop Failure, Crystals, CSETI, Cult, Dark Matter ... Fairy, Faith Healer, Fate,
FBI, Fear, Fuck ... Yogi, Yoni, yugas, zeta reticulan Zendik, Zendik Farm, zoo ...
www.geocities.com/wiscojason/contact.html - 15k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages[/size] Huge Internet Superstars - The Most Important Place on the Entire ...
[size=-1]... FBI Show Highlight: Rene Dupree kisses the dog. ... Belinda Carlisle (Part 1 of 2) Metroid:
Zero Mission (GBA) Final Fantasy (PS1) Zendik - It's Cult-Tastic! ...
www.hugeinternetsuperstars.com/ articles.php?month=2004-04&p=2 - 30k - Supplemental Result [/size]

 

Um, did you even bother to check out those links before posting them. Perhaps its just me, maybe I it’s late and I am real tired but:

The first 2 links did not mention the farm at all!
3rd Said nothing negative.
4th could not retrieve the article.
5th nothing substantive or factual
6th nothing negative
7th nothing about the farm at all!

Anyway, like I said I might just be tired.

 

yes and no, I briefly scanned them however when you mix the key words you get the topics, but I stand by my feelings as just my opinion after looking through thier web page for some time, and just the simple no off site working tipped me off.

 

I don't know what it is you are trying to accomplish here, girl......
Last I checked we live in a free society so I guess if you want to come here and harrass me that's for you to decide just be aware that I can only take so much and I have reached my limit.
If it's my attention you seek to gain you have it.
I've saved every e-mail you sent me to floppy disc. If you don't stop harrassing me I'll be headed to the Justice Center to file as many complaints against you as possible.
This kind of crap makes me sick, grow up and seek help.
You have a life to live as I do and everyone else in this world and if I didn't want a girlfriend to break up with me then I would have taken heed to her concerns not just continue to behaive in the way that pushed her away.
You have a rage inside of you that is not very healthy and I choose NOT be be a part of it, this is my choice. Now you have a choice. Get on with your life, forget about me as the more you choose to harrass me the less I feel for you.
What happens next is totally on you.

 

I like girls writing style and flow of thought. I wonder where she aquired it from. I think I heard something about Zendiks talking in unending sentences and making very little sense accept to themselves.

 

There's nothing quite like reading bad gossip about yourself in a public forum, especially when it's not only out of context, but quite inaccurate. This place is like the National Enquirer for burnouts...
Caboc (jonp), you may have a few problems with your memory. Or you're just a little loose in the head these days. Not sure which, nor is this the place to discuss such matters. Although splitting you wide open in front of everyone could be tempting after your post about me, I'll be the gentleman you need to learn to be. You can't even remember how many acres ZF was, let alone details about my life there.
If you would like to discuss matters and possibly have your memory freshened up a bit, feel free to PM me. In the future watch what you say about others in public forums, especially if you're not sure what the truth is. The next guy may not be so easy on you. That goes for you too, Kira (redlentil).

Nez

 

I think Nez is right to be pissed in this case...and if you thought about it for five seconds, you’d have to admit that you’d be mortified if gossip pertaining to you appeared in a public forum like this (especially if it was false gossip). A simple case of “do unto others,” no? I’ve written some quite negative things about the Farm in this forum, but the point is, I wrote these things about the Farm as an institution...I haven’t taken aim at individual Zendiks, nor would I want to. I stand by what I've said, because everything I’ve written pertains to my own (subjective) experiences, and to how my own intellectual/political views clashed with the Farm’s. I’ve reported what I saw happen on a daily basis, and not what I heard through the grapevine about this or that personality. I think it’s perfectly appropriate for people who spent time at Zendik Farm to discuss our impressions, either in a shooting-the-shit, walking-down-memory-lane way, or to give people who know nothing about the Farm a sense of what it’s really like...or to discuss some of the larger political/social issues at stake in the Zendik Farm experience. I think we cross a line, though, when we use the forum in the spirit of “So-and-so was a jerk to me at the Farm, so I’m going to pay him back by spreading his dirty little secrets on the internet.” Anyway, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with writing a “Top 10 Reasons Why Zendik Farm Wasn’t For Me” sort of posting...but this thread is becoming a lot less interesting to me, as it crosses that line of basic politeness. I should have said this awhile ago...

 

Although splitting you wide open in front of everyone could be tempting after your post about me, ---------------------- Wow, someone really said something good to make you want to "split them wide open". Just remember when you threaten someone like that in a public forum on the internet it's there for all to see.

 

If it's my attention you seek to gain you have it.
I've saved every e-mail you sent me to floppy disc. If you don't stop harrassing me I'll be headed to the Justice Center to file as many complaints against you as possible


HA HA HA HA HA, THATS THE HIPPIE WAY, THREATEN SOMEONE WITH THE SYSTEM YOU BUCK, WHAT THE FUCK! UMM YOU CAN BLOCK EMAIL ADDYS, YOU CAN IGNORE OR YOU CAN COP OUT AND NOT COPE AND AGAIN USE THE SYSTEM WE ALL CANT DEAL WITH.....LIFE IS SO GRAND!

 

Obviously Zendik farm is not for everyone, and it is right to say most and many people will not work out. The problem is the website and magazines do nothing to state "who would" or "would not" fit in.
There probably would not be as many disgruntled people leaving or getting kicked out of the farm if clear concise information was presented in the first place. It is not right to portray it as a place where you will move into the farm, make friends with the people they show on the website, work in a garden during the day and then concentrate on your art. I am sure very few people who leave to check out the farm realize what the Zendiks mean by being dedicated to the Zendik way of life. They are not thinking of it as being a concentrated immersion into one mans philosophy, or being the low person on the totem pole and living in a veritable hovel where ther day is tightly controlled by indoctrination and hard labor. These people are looking to come to a country atmosphere where everyone works equally to grow, build and contribute to living in general, and then have enough time to be inspired by the natural world or absence common society to concentrate on thier artistic projects.
That is the major flaw. People go there, or have hopes of going becuase of their belief that they can put in an honest days work, and still have the time for their art, which in normal society is difficult to find time for.
How special are the visitors? How many have gone through in the last month? If I went there next week, I would just be another face in the multitudes that have come and left in the last thirty years. Why would the Zendiks want to spend time with every new person when they are mostly going to leave?
So ok, I have not been there. I really don't know whats going on... but one thing is clear from all the research and collective experiences (true of false) for that matter, that Zendik improperly portray's who they are and what they are. That is the problem I have with this, because I was going to go until I thoroughly researched Zendik and found they were not at all what I expected or who they say they were.

Anyways, whether I am right or wrong, the Zendiks themselves should even be able to agree that with all the visitors that don't fit, they obviously were expecting something different.

 

Dammit! Do you have to use all caps? Does that make your typing louder?

 

The problem is not with the website. The website is a symptom of the root cause of the problem. Where does this Lie lay?.........
The person that wrote the website? The person in charge of the person writing the website??????
The problem is the Lie not the site or mag.....

Again. This is the lie. The website and the mags advertise (had to use that word) a place where one can "make friends with the people", "work in a garden during the day and then concentrate on your art", this be the hook....

You say flaw.... I say lie....

In a word. Arrogance. I'd probally be as guilty, think about it...
Any organization should realize it's capibilities and know that it's greatest resourse is it's people. Above all your people come first. Think about all the new people that have come to the farm. Count them all for a year then add up all the costs related to having people come and go like it is. They could have had a Zendik Cable Company by now. They don't want it, they don't care.
The more people that show up the more heads that are thinking the doors have to keep revolving or there will be a uprising at the Farm!!

There is no right or wrong. There is only Truth.

 

Well you kind of make that sound like a simple case of misunderstanding. While that may be true, I get the distinct impression (from members of this forum)that it is more than that. Many people here feel the zendiks misrepresent what they are all about. That they do so intentionally to entice vulnerable people into their farm. That really seems to be the major gripe of people on this forum. You or I might well think the same way if we had not found this forum. As you said you were thinking about going to the farm but now you won’t. I am the same.

So that they won’t leave! If they neglect their newest members, of course they are going to leave. Why should they stay?

 

Kid Nez writes

I was wondering if those rumors would get back to you. True or not, I agree that it's rude to say such things on the Internet, but I'd watch who you call "burnouts."

While it's not appropriate to slander someone in a public forum, it's less appropriate to threaten them in one. Your response seems very immature and not particularly "evolved" to me.

Look Nez, don't threaten people, period. I see that you're angry, but you're giving the sort of Mafia threat here "yeah, boss, I'm the nice guy, but the next guy might smash you're head in," kind of thing. We can say whatever we see fit. Your sad devotion to the Zendik Farm and it's hatered of honest debate is showing through here.

Now that I've read and participated in this thread, the Zendik Farm scares me. I wasn't afraid of Zendik when I was there or for years afterward, but now I think the place needs to be exposed. It's not so much what the critics have said about Zendik on this thread that bothers me, it's the reactions to what we've posted from the Zendik followers: Revel, Siah and yourself, that have made me realize what a screwed up place Zendik really is.

 

The more I think about it, the more it disgusts me that certain salacious gossip about individual Zendik personalities is tossed around so easily on this message board. I think the National Enquirer bit in Nez’s post is dead-on, because we seem to be treating the Zendiks as celebrities who deserve whatever they get, since they’re “public figures” who belong to us in some sense, just as the details of Julia Roberts’ pregnancy or divorce (or whatever) are “our business,” if we buy this sort of reasoning. So I agree with you, Greenhornet, that there was something weirdly belligerent about Nez’s response to reading gossip about himself on the internet...but I also think that it’s rather easy for us to say that he should have responded differently, since we’re not in Nez’s position. How should he have taken it? With a smile on his face and a “forgive them, for they know not what they do”? You seem to be getting on Nez’s case for not being an angel, in a situation where most of us, I think, would be ready to punch someone’s lights out, or call a lawyer...

For me, the creepiest element of Zendik Farm was the way that shame was used as a control mechanism...if the Zendiks didn’t like something about you, they could shame you into submission by making your private shit a matter of public disapproval. This made me sick while I was at the Farm, and it makes me sick, too, when disgruntled ex-Zendiks do the same thing.

I should add, though, that this issue is complicated by the fact that at the Farm, the line between “public” and “private,” or the social and the personal, is pretty fuzzy...in fact, it’s deliberately fuzzed, because the Zendiks are ideologically committed to making it that way. So when we’re discussing what life is like at the Farm, maybe it’s impossible to stay away from topics that we wouldn’t discuss in polite company (e.g., being a Zendik means having your sex life regulated in certain ways, and so people should definitely know the ugly little details about this regulation before they get involved with the Zendiks). And by the same token, the Farm is the way it is because of the power of certain individual personalities in this community (e.g., you can’t really discuss the Farm’s philosophy without also discussing Arol’s role in particular, since she calls the shots). Still, though, I think we can discuss these issues without lowering ourselves to the level of men’s room graffiti...

p.s.
Your line about how it’s worse to threaten someone than to slander them doesn't make sense to me, since Nez was clearly only threatening to do to Jonp what Jonp had already done to Nez, i.e., spread gossip about him in a public forum. Slandering someone is indeed worse than threatening to slander someone, just as hitting someone is worse than threatening to hit someone...no?

 

godlesscommie

I both agree and disagree with you.

While I agree that people should not lower themselves to personal attacks on each other as that does nothing to strengthen his/her point of view. But, I do not think any topic should be taboo! Knowing the details of what goes on at the farm would be helpful to many “would be zendiks”.

Yes I agree that any zendiks who post here might be understandably angry. However, one would also think that they would explain their side of the story. So far the only voices heard here were strongly anti-zendik. I think we should allow the zendiks to answer the accusations made here without attacking them personally. Lets stick to debating ideas, philosophy, actions and not people.

 

Dalamar: Though I think we basically agree that it’s unproductive (not to mention sleazy and gross) to dwell on personal attacks, and that we should limit ourselves to discussing ideas, philosophy, actions, etc., as you said, I wouldn’t agree at all with your claim that “no topic should be taboo”...And this is for two reasons: (1) it’s very easy for you to say “no topic should be taboo” when the topic here is someone else’s private life, not yours! It’s easy to say “let everyone’s secrets out in the open! let’s not censor ourselves!” when of course, there’s no danger of sordid revelations about YOU emerging in the discussion. (2) The idea that “no topic should be taboo” is one of the central tenets of the ZENDIK philosophy, and a very fishy one at that. The Farm is precisely the place where everything about you is everyone else’s business...and that’s why it’s so unbearable to live there!