Zendik

Another pearl:

"Remember ..... A group does not have to be religious to be cultic in behaviour. High demand groups can be commercial, political and psychological. Be aware, especially if you are a bright, intelligent and idealistic person. The most likely person to be caught up in this type of behavioural system is the one who says "I won't get caught. It will never happen to me. I am too intelligent for that sort of thing."

- Jan Groenveld, on www.ex-cult.org, the second site that Red Lentil posted

 

I thought I would take Jadi's advice and post her nasty PM for everybody to enjoy. I don't know why she didn't just post to the thread in the first place (I think that the expression of concern for my "fragile ego" may not be genuine). Jadi, don't be shy. You can't hurt me any more.

Quoting Jadi:


whoa there!!!
You seriously need to get your facts straight girl.....and move on. I think your perspective is totally whacked... The farm is not perfect. But you are straight up mean.

I lived there for a while. I lived there in Texas, Florida, and North Carolina. Yeah it is way hard to leave not meaning hard to actually leave , for me it was very easy...but adjusting. It is way hard to be alone in this world. It is way hard to live with people. But your perspective is off. Way off. I have seen it a lot with people that have lived there and left. People cannot seem to handle not being coddled or finding out that they aren't needed or are maybe not a desireable person to live in a commune with. It is really hard to shake the anger that you stored up being there. All the shit you were too afraid to say to people's faces. Your morality and ego does get rocked there. Again they are not perfect, and in the 4 years that I lived there I never heard Arol or Wulf say they were. The biggest problem I had were people who posed as Zendiks telling me what was right and wrong and eventually to fit in I did the same. The term we had for that then was being "Zendik Correct" which also wasn't something you wanted to be because it wasn't thinking for your self. I don't think the social dynamic works either, but I do think they are trying to come up with something different...

You try to set something up that is striving for your ideals. Spend 40 yrs of your life doing it and then get back to me... I don't think Arol is a saint or is doing it right or whatever..... Life is really really hard. I just know that a lot of the things you guys that have been there are saying are really skewed. I think that Zendik is not for everyone. I know they definately don't want everyone living there. Especially people who are just followers and then will leave and 10 yrs later try to sue them and talk trash about them.

p.s. Chen is not in a psyche ward. He is ok. The ex-Zendik gossip circle is quite fueled with hatred.

you can post this public if you like I wrote it to you privately....because you seem to have a very fragile ego...Don't we all. And yes I hated Interpersonal Meetings with a passion....but I did learn a lot.

"Onward" Jadi

 

I hope that Chen is well and that he is in a warm and supportive environment.

 

Jabi seems confused. She seems to have hostility toward both the Zendiks and the ex Zendiks. She says thet Zendik doesn't want followers. They said that when I was there all those years ago and it certainly wasn't true then. People who voiced dissent voiced it at their own risk, and people who towed the line stayed in good standing.

It sounds as if little has changed over at the ol' Zendik Farm depite what Siah says.

I think the pain point is that Zendik is a totalist, cultic (of course not as dangerous as the Branch Dividians or somebody) group, which can really do a psychological number on people who live there.

I really hope Chen the best as well, I really liked him.

 

Does anyone know where Chen is? I liked him and really enjoyed talking to him.

I am still surprizes that he left the Farm.

 

Jadi wrote to me again and apologized. She says she's scared to post to the thread.

Jadi, I understand. I'm posting your messages here. I wouldn't normally post PMs, but you've given your permission and I think that what you've written might help others understand the pain and confusion felt by committed Zendiks after they leave (or are kicked out of) Zendik Farm.

What you've written reminds me so much of what I went through (including the first one, which was exactly like a Zendik interpersonal session). You had high ideals before you went to Zendik Farm, and you STILL have high ideals. Regardless of what Zendik Farm leads you to believe, YOU HAVE NOT FAILED. Living up to your own ethical standards is a process, and your commitment to that process did not end when you stepped past the Zendiks' property line. That's good (and it can be very lonely).

I have much more to say, and no time to say it in. I won't be around much this week, but I'm going to be thinking a lot about all of this.

Be good to each other.

 

Jadi
Guest

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 0


spoke too soon part 1
I apologize

The messege I last sent you was a little out of context I hadn't read the whole thread. please post this public for you and the other people that have lived at the farm... I would post these things to everybody but for some reason I can't post a reply. (I slightly retarted not scared to post public).Really I think because I just found this site and registered today. But I do understand the heartbreak of it not working out there, the dissapoinmtent,confusion, anger,and the desire to fit in that I think the majority of people that go through there experience....Either that or the mores at Zendik are just too different and people cannot handle it.... I do know it was truley getting friendlier and more inclusive when I was there. From the time that I first moved there and the time that I left it had changed tremendously.

I guess I am responding to you guys becuase some of the stuff you said made me so mad....And I wanted someone that had lived there to give a different perspective

I think some of the stuff some that was said by other people was skewed...I think some stuff stems from real wrong doings to individuals on the farm's part but its taken out of the whole context or what the farm is trying to do. The farm is not a hippy commune and has never claimed to be....

I actually talk to quite a few people that used to live there...They are actually my closest friends "out here" WE have varying perspectives but they definatley help me and we have a frame of reference I cannot find with anyone else....None of them have had quite the horrible experiences stated by you guys and I talk to people that had lived there for a period of 2-20 years... The farm truley does fuck with your head. meaning it changes the way you think....it doesn't help you function in this society.Zendik never said it would. It is trying to form a new society and it is in its infancy stages. they never said they are going to hook you up for if/when you leave. There is no way they could do that $$$$. You had to have known that when you joined. It is a risk, but a life worth living is risky. Isn't it? So in my 19 yr old naieve mind, yeah I was expecting a utopia already formed. And when reality hit it was a shock and a dissapointment , but the farm fascinated me and was intense and real enough i stayed for 4 years. Again it is not perfect. But I did learn a hell of a lot there. And I still miss a lot about it and certain people and I am still heart broken that it didn't work out for me...And then there are the things that I definately don't miss.....INTERPERSONAL MEETINGS. I dreaded them not because they weren't interesting but because I was terrified I would get brought up. and I think the majority of people felt that way...So not the most relaxed fun thing to do...But they were informative. I actually would get a rush from being brought up..I hated and dreaded it but I felt alive too...

 

Jadi
Guest

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 0


Spoke to soon part 2
There are kinks with everything but it is up to each person in this world to take your experiences and perspectives and make your life out of that....Choice....It is so fucking hard. And I do agree with Siah when he said that you do have to have an above average ego strength or whatever he said for the Farm to work for you....

There needs to be other places/ways where those of us that don't can work through it.....build it up.
So I know I have some serious self esteem problems as does the majority of the planet.......and it is up to me to figure out what is going to work for my life. I have wanted to blame the farm for this and that..maybe if this or that was different about it I could have made it work... Somethings were done/said to me wrongly by individuals there, but I was also given a lot by people there too. I have hurt people's feelings I have done wrong in this life. you have too. Everyone does.

I was never forced to have sex with anyone by anyone except my own standard of what I thought I should do. The whole human trait of wanting to be accepted is a hard one. It will force you to shut your brain down.As far as that being fueled by Arol or Fawn not that I know of. I always thought they were pretty annoyed by it.

You know I definately had my observations and I think some of them were right on but I was always too chickenshit to confront them and stand by them and fight for what I thought. And I think unless you were/are willing to do that at Zendik you will either leave or be asked to leave eventually because you will be resentful and miserable.
It is no fun to be a drone.

The human society issue and how to do it is harder than I can even fathom..it is "hard work" as Bush would say, but it is...the hardest. we are insane alone and we drive each other insane...you know. At least Zendik is taking a swing at it. I have been gone from there for over 3 years and I have to tell you it has not been easy...it is a real mind fuck, as you guys know, but I am glad that I went. I think it saved and encouraged some really good things about me and still challenges me to think and question. I am still inspired by what they are DOING with their lives.

I am still trying to figure out what I am going to do with my life. I am lost in a lot of ways. When I try to tell people that I am lost or have a hard time with keeping a job or a relationship or can't get with the program they say/think "what a shame that that place did that to you....she probably needs cult therapy" But they don't get the essence of Zendik or of me and that Zendik is a huge part of who I am....

I don't mean to come down on you guys but I see it differently... And i didn't mean for it to get fired up hateful again it was starting to cool down and I fucked it all up, Hah!!oops

*Jadi

 

Jadi
Guest

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 0


the 1st messege
Red Lentil, I do truely apologize I was responding to a post on up the line and had not read the whole thing...

It just really pissed me off and I do still care about Zendik a lot.

The strain seemed like it was starting to go in a better direction and I don't want to inject nastiness back into it. So again my apologies- Jadi

 

Just to clarify I wasn't too afraid to post I hadn't registerd all the way so I could only PM people....I don't think Zendik assasins are gonna come get me....I finally figured ou thow to post, so good for me.........this has to be quick I gotta go................

Zendik is a fantastic place and I'll expand on that later....i don't think I mentioned that before...It is unlike any other place and that is a good thing....... More later.......bye bye

 

Okay, so I promised myself that I wouldn't post anymore.........but....So I get now that Zendik isn't a "hippie" commune. If that's the case then why do so many people who want to live the hippie lifestyle go there? My friend was approached by someone from Zendik. He wasn't searching for them. He had the hippie look,he thought like one,etc. If they don't want people like that there then why talk to them? Also, I believe that people that are artists are very free spirited people.Why would an artist want to live a life where there is such a strict environment?(meaning the work,meetings and so on)

 

Zendik is hippie more in its trappings than anything else: hippie aesthetic, authoritarian attitudes. That may be why so many people leave Zendik in a relatively short time, because their marketing doesn't match the reality. Perhaps the Zendiks themselves believe that they're hippie, but it depends on how you define hippie. I've known some people who have long hair, casual clothes, even tie dye & beads who had some pretty right-wing views.

Both the extreme right & left tend to be authoritarian, so I guess I'd say the Zendiks are far-left authoritarian. They talk about demoracy but don't practice it beyond the superficial level ie. "what job do I want to do today, build a shed or paint the goat barn?" The real decisions are centered with Arol's inner circle and I suppose, ultimately with Arol herself, who, by the way, looks like a hippie. In the Zendik's defense, trying to run a commune under very tollerant, democratic, all-accepting ideals is close to impossible. It may be possible given the right group of dedicated individuals, but such expiriments have usually disolved in conflict or poverty due to infighting or lack of productivity.

So the Zendiks may have started out as hippies in CA, but have morphed into something else (probabably out of necessity) while holding onto many of the bohemian trappings - that's my take.

 

Zendiks hate hippies.

 

But they look like hippies. They paint buildings purple like hippies and use funny hippie-like symbols.

I think it's all about marketing, trying to appeal to the type of person who'd move to a commune. Without a constant flow of new people's money, enthusiasm & labor, Zendik would dry up. Perhaps they're really more rightist than they appear.

P.S great picture, Red Lentil!

 

If you've had sex with Zendiks since december of 1993 (when I was kicked out of Zendik Farm) and can give an update on their practices, please post. I've written in present tense only because it keeps the grammer comprehensible.

But this is how we did it in the Clinton years...
(cue up the Nirvana remixes)

1. Choose your potential partner. It might be somebody you've never had sex with, or it might be someone you've been in a steady sexual relationship with for years. The process is the same.

2. Find an erosocial administrator. They're core Zendiks who are authorized to arrange "dates" for other members.

3. Ask the erosocial administrator to "hit up" your potential partner. If you'd like to spend the night sleeping next to your partner you should mention this, too. You can also hit somebody up just to cuddle or kiss (yes, this means that we weren't "allowed" to have unauthorized cuddling or kissing sessions, but we never saw it that way).

4. Wait for an answer. The erosocial administrator will find your potential partner, forward your proposition, and get back to you. This could take some time, but usually the answer comes back within a few hours. If you've been rejected, the erosocial administrator will tell you why. If you've been accepted, you are now free to approach your partner and arrange a time and place for your "date".

5. Sign up for a "love shack". Zendiks live in crowded quarters and it would be just plain rude to attempt to hump while your roommates are trying to sleep. Be sure to specify a time slot (usually after the workday and meetings or classes are over, otherwise you might have a time limit).

6. Get a "spec check" (if you're a woman). Fertility or obvious signs of a herpes outbreak will cancel your date.

7. Gather your pillows and blankets, your candles and oils, and head out to the love shack.

8. Do it.

9. If you haven't cleared a sleepover with your erosocial administrator (or weren't interested in having one), you will need to gather your things and return to your bunk for the night.

10. Follow-up (this usually happens the next day) and group announcement. Your date will be announced at the next meeting. You will also meet briefly with the erosocial administrator to discuss the date. They'll ask you how it went, what you liked about it, whether you'd like to do it again, whether there were any problems, etc.


That's not so bad now, is it?

 

Very nice summary, Red Lentil! It matches my observations. Does it resemble current Zendik practice?

 

The point of a complicated, bureaucratic sex protocol (and every other Zendik policy) is to disrupt and destroy one's pre-Zendik behaviour patterns-- which it does, quite effectively. The assumption is that all pre-Zendiks (or non-Zendiks or ex-Zendiks) are incapable of enlightened thought or behaviour and that any ideas originating outside of Zendik culture are not "valid".

 

I wrote that in the present tense because it's still true.

 

It's all so clear to me now.
Any group, say this small group here, has their leader types. The ones that are seen as the smartest and most literate are given the most time and responses. The other guys, the ones that are not seen as such are seen as not so valid, they are ignored.
So now we have Zendik Farm. A bunch of people who have their own thing going for years and they do the same thing. This is not just a Zendik thing it's a Human thing. People like to feel special and when they do they ignore the folks that are not up to their standards which can have the same feelings that have been expressed here in this thread.
Here we have GH and RL, Wolf and Arol and here I am the ignorant new Zendik that is not valid.

 

But the Zendiks throw out the smartest, most independent people and tend to hold onto the more cooperative types. You've got it turned around. Asside from those who are just mentally unstable who show up at Zendik (and there must be quite a number of crazies knocking on their door) it's really an honor to be given the boot from Zendik because it shows that you've got enough on the ball to be a threat.