Zendik

Siah,


I'm very confused now, and keep oscillating between the Zendik site and this thread, I just don't know what to believe. For the last five years I've been very interested in coming to visit Zendik. I even sent Arol one of those 'teen in crisis' letters when I was about sixteen, but after an initial reply I didn't hear anything when I tried to contact. Maybe she was busy.

Anyway, I was a little stung but kept hoping I'd raise the money to visit the US (I live in the North of England) and the farm, but one shitty job after another put an end to that. I'm at uni now, unsettled with my lack of spirituality, creatively frozen (at times), but in a strong relationship and happy for that. I *am* facinated by the Zendik philosophy, but everytime I search for articles on Zendik hoping to get a clearer picture, I get things like this thread.

It's worrying, I was very frightened when I read it, I'm not sure why....But I've been following this thread for a while now, and spent a long time reading before I actually joined, and the debate seems to be coming increasingly malicious and cliquey. I don't know, it just feels like there is no middle ground, no way of discerning what is actually true or not. I don't believe Red Lentil et al are lying, although some of them seem to have been messed up before they came to the farm, but at the same time...I don't know, there's a very bad vibe to this thread. As I said, confusing.

Maybe I should look elsewhere?

What is this other, 'respected media' you were talking about? I'm just trying to get an overall impression. It's very hard when my posts are ignored and there seems to be no opening in the debate.

Iris x

 

1. Well, what do you mean hierarchy? Depends on what you are asking about... Which accusation should I answer here?

2. I can't say that Jonp was never wrongly critisized at Zendik Farm. If my defense seemed like I was saying nothing out-of-line ever happens here, sorry. I don't mean that. Look, I don't know about that instance but (and this is kind of weird to have to explain this) yes you are "allowed" to put philosophy into your own words. You are encouraged to think, to speak, to explore. Veteran Zendiks aren't boogey men. I don't know anyone who actually refers to themself as a veteran Zendik, truthfully... answering these questions in the way they are phrased is degrading.

Shit, some things I feel like I would be more able to have a decent conversation with somebody than in this easy-to-misunderstand environment. Anyways, I hope you guys understand that I'm not trying to say you are all wrong for not wanting to live here. I'm just trying to stick up for those of us who do.

 

Well, what DOES go on at Zendik now? I would be very happy to find that my experience was unique to its day. If you want to defend Zendik Farm, giving details of daily life and procedure which have changed for the better would be quite effective.

As for the widespread belief that Zendik Farm is ecologically oriented, well.. the desire to save the earth through ecologically sane practices is being spread by your own blurbs (this one from www.ic.org):

"Zendik Farm is a cooperative community of artists, activists, and organic farmers committed to the survival of the human species through the practice of the Earth-saving philosophy known as Ecolibrium"

If Zendik has ceased its ecological commitment, these promo texts need to be edited, and Wulf's term for his philosophy altered. It's very misleading, and may be attracting hordes of unwanted radical environmentalists to your group.

 

Well, my diatribe was truly rambling and I don't blame you for missing the two paragraphs aimed right at the accusation that we "are not acting according to (our) philosophy." But I tried to answer it. Sorry if you don't agree or see what I mean or whatever... If you still can't find it, ask... I'll repost that part.

The main reason I left you out of my diatribe was that you just attack Zendik in an idealistic way, so I guess we just don't agree. I don't want to waste my finger clicks saying stuff that you will just refute because we basically disagree. I felt upset when I read Red Lentil's narrative of her experience at Zendik. It made me think about that time, kind of "Woah, why did we do all that shit?". My post was mostly just my answer to that question. Like I said, I just don't like these accounts of past Zendik actions to sit here out of context to the intentions of these actions.

also, I never said that either Lentil or Jon P were lying. The only instance I said was untrue was the beating, chaining, and electric shocking of JonP.

If it is worth anything, I appologize to anyone who's feelings were hurt by their experiences with Zendik. I'm not here to fuck with any of you, just to defend Zendik.

C'mon Hornet, your thing about the light conversations is just twisting my words. My intention there was to let everyone know (from a person who lives here) that this life isn't all ego-breakdown, therapy, and meetings.

AND, I wasn't singling anyone out (jeez you are a word twister, are you a lawyer?) to make them look bad. There were serious accusations aimed at Zendik, and I was trying to explain the intentions and spirit of the time that these things occured and the spirit and atmosphere of Zendik now. If I seemed like I was singling out or attacking, sorry. It is a hard line to walk in this forum setting. Tone of voice is easier to detect when you are speaking with a person. I feared I might come off more cold or uncaring than I feel.

Please treat me with some respect as an individual if you want me to answer anything else.

 

Siah, it did happen. It may be the only instance of that sort of abuse, but it did happen. I don't beleive that it was planned that way, but in a moment of anger Bugz and Chen let loose on me. The other two stood by and watched.

 

"The main reason I left you out of my diatribe was that you just attack Zendik in an idealistic way, so I guess we just don't agree. I don't want to waste my finger clicks saying stuff that you will just refute because we basically disagree."

Siah: I would actually reverse this. Idealistically I agree with a great deal of what Wulf, Arol & the Zendiks have said. The issue is about if, and how those ideas are put into practice. Honestly, I had a fairly positive view of Zendik until I read that article about Zendik selling its land in NC to the highest bidder, and then found this forum and read the testimony (legal term) of Jomp, Red Lentil & others. I didn't decide to stay at Zendik myself, but really thought the place was okay. So it's not a matter of ideology. It's really about being disappointed with same old story of people talking about high ideals and not following through on them.

It's certainly fine if Zendik wants to occupy farms in various states and then sell them off to developers and so forth, but don't go around setting yourself up as a group of radical environmentalists who are trying to save the world unless you're willing to "walk the talk." This is the thing about honesty: you’ve got to be honest with yourself or the whole thing doesn’t work, and that goes for organizations as well as individuals.

 

One thing I have often wondered about is how pregnancy is treated. Can a woman (or couple for that matter) decide to have a child and then do so at will or does a pregnancy have to be planned and agreed on by all residents. I know that sounds like a silly question but considering that everyone would be involved
in the result of a pregnancy, I would think at the least that everyone would need to be on board with it. What are the views on terminating a pregnancy that occurred accidentally. Is it totally up to the woman? Has this ever happened? Has anyone ever had a child and then decided to leave the farm but not take their child with them?

 

Evidently I am not expressing myself very well, or you guys simply don't deem my posts worthy of the slightest mention, so I'm signing off.


Maybe you don't feel it is important to address those who haven't got extensive experiance of actually living on the farm, with CV to boot, et al, but there are some people on this thread who, from an outsiders point of view, genuinely want to sum up the pro's and cons of the Zendik farm in theory before visiting. This is very difficult when their repeated attempts to warrant some response go completely ignored.

Anyway, peace to your clique, or whatever.

 

Iris Moon,
I just wrote here last night for the first time.
Today, I've tried to keep up with everything and I just saw your thingy right now. I answered some when I came in for lunch today but I've been outside all day helping build a fence for our goats. If you are really signing off, sorry, so long...

This isn't an official Zendik endorsed, authorized and certified forum. I'm just chiming in as a guest like everybody else. If anybody really really wants a reply from Zendik, call or email Zendik Farm. Contact info is on our website. If you can get on this website, you can get on that one... http://www.zendik.org Actually, calling may get you more chance of a quick reply than emailing. We are kind of slow to reply to emails now because we are still getting settled into our new home computer-wise.

Anybody else I haven't answered,
There are 27 pages of stuff here. I haven't commented on lots of it. I first came to this forum to talk about some of the more horrible stuff I've seen said by people who once lived at Zendik. But, I will answer other stuff if you want. Just chime in again because I don't know who I'm leaving out that might actually want an answer.

And give me a little time because (and people seemed hostile to Revel when he said this) I'm really busy. I am interested though, just got other stuff I neeeed to do as well.

Si-dog

 

I'm sorry, Siah, I wasn't having a dig at you....it's the thread itself, which seems to be led more and more by a very select number of people and the debate is becoming so exclusive that it seems useless trying to get a word in. I'm sure the term 'conspiracy' has been mentioned here. It's beginning to feel like that, a little hysterical, and since you and Revel arrived things have been thrown into even more confusion.

Am I explaining myself well enough? I don't seem to be much of a wordsmith after work, I'm sorry...

Reading back on this thread it appears I misjudged it slightly. Seeing regular voices trickle out and new ones take over to discuss what they said, it puts more emphasis on those original testimonies, and reading back, it seems a little like these peoples experiances of Zendik (invariably bad, it seems, on this thread) are more a reflection of the person themself at the time, than they are to do with the real story of the Zendik farm.

Like I said, it seems impossible to get a fair picture from this 'debate' ; I think I'm better sticking to the website and online articles.

Thanks for noticing,

Iris x

 

People can do things at will. That doesn't stop other people from chiming in and giving their opinion. We are pretty into giving and listening to eachother's opinons 'round these parts. Of course, having a kid is HUGE decision and many couples or women talk about it A LOT before deciding to do it. Others have become pregnant accidentally. Some have gone ahead and had the kid, others have not.... woman's choice, with plenty of support and advice.

...decided to leave the farm but not take the child?
We were in that position a couple times, years ago. Currently nothing like that happening. All the little ones here are with mommas.

 

I think it takes a certain type of person to 'succeed' at the Zendik Farm & if it works for them, fine. I see no need to continue this war of words. So what if Zendiks don't practice what they preach? I was disapointed with them, but I see more clearly now. This is not for me to decide - God or the universe or elemental energy or whatever you call it decides. Perhaps the Huns will come riding down on the Zendik Farm because of its hypocracies, perhaps not. In any event there are far worse entities in the world that seem to survive just fine, at least for now. I'm off to meditate and conceive something new. Peace

 

I agree with what Greenhornet said about continuing the war of words.. Siah, you have given me better idea of what Zendik farm is about. I can see that the farm is not for everybody. I want to admit that I was wrong for jumping to conclusions. The only reason I posted on this thread was because of what my friends experienced there. My only knowledge of the farm is what they have told me, and well, them being my close friends I honestly didn't think that maybe they took the things that they experienced there the wrong way.Then of course I found this thread.I was much like Iris in being confused just a bit. You have proven to me that you aren't a bunch of monsters, just people that are striving for something different than what we have been taught.I apologize for being ignorant on the whole subject and judging. So I'm off to surf the web. Peace.........

 

From http://wellspringretreat.org/:

When nonmembers are labeled as ignorant, unspiritual, satanic, etc., group members conclude that outsiders have nothing worthwhile to teach them. Thus members are unlikely to look outside the group for information, especially spiritual information. Milieu control includes other techniques to restrict members' contact with the outside world and to be able to make critical, rational judgments about information: overwork, busyness, multiple lengthy meetings, etc. Lifton: "The most basic feature of the thought reform environment, the psychological current upon which all else depends, is the control of human communication. [This includes] not only the individual's communication with the outside..., but also...his communication with himself... [T]hought reform participants may be in doubt as to who is telling what to whom, but the fact that extensive information about everyone is being conveyed to the authorities is always known... Having experienced the impact of what they consider to be an ultimate truth..., they consider it their duty to create an environment containing no more and no less than this 'truth.' [The group member] is deprived of the combination of external information and inner reflection which anyone requires to test the realities of his environment and to maintain a measure of identity separate from it..."

 

Also from http://wellspringretreat.org/: Sound familiar?

Some former members don't realize that they were involved in a cultic organization or relationship. And many who have been emotionally damaged in these types of situations are unaware that their emotional struggles are related to their experience. Below are some tips to help you spot a client who is suffering as a result of coercive abuse.

Severe guilt. Even after they intellectually break from the group, cult victims can suffer from debilitating guilt due to extreme emotional attachment to the group.

Vacillation between speaking very negatively and very positively about the cultic group or individual.

Family problems that were not present prior to the individual’s cult involvement.

Irrational sense that society is “out to get them.” This may result from the cult’s tendency to foster an “us vs. them” mentality.

Inability to think for himself or herself. Victims of cults are often deprecated to the point that they believe themselves to be incapable of sound decision-making.

Loss of a sense of purpose and zest for living which set in after involvement with the group.

Extreme fear of the supernatural.

Fear of facing the future without God. Cult victims are often taught that to leave the group is to leave God.

 

GH, my nervous laughter continues.

The social/psychological phenomena that occurs in "high demand" groups like Zendik Farm is fascinating. Humans seem to be so deeply wired for cooperative (communal) social organization that we will completely abandon our sense of self in order to allow the group to continue to function (with us in it).

There are many fascinating texts on this subject. www.ex-cult.org is a good place to start for general information and links about the "cult" mindset.

The human brain is rad!

 

Me: No we aren't.
You: Yes you are.
etc. etc. etc.

Yes, the human brain is rad.

 

And I am really sorry about Iris feeling left out. Contact with Zendiks makes me very anxious and I need to limit the time that I spend reading and responding to posts.

 

Siah, we agree! Hooray for the human brain!

And on another subject: do you know what became of Nom? Last I heard he wasn't doing so well, but that was years ago. Do you guys ever hear from him?

 

I ran into Nom in Austin pretty often back when Zendik was in Texas. He was living in Austin, in a house with some Earth First! guys that he was involved with. He was traveling often to various eco-hotspots, fighting the good fight. For a job, he was working at a suicide hotline, answering calls. We moved from Texas in 1998 and I don't know of any new news so this isn't current info.

signing off,
Si-dog