Zendik

red Lentil... we tried for some time to save the mountain, but could not.

greenhornet... we're scraping by to do our art and get it out to the world, the same way we always have. I can assure you that Arol and Fawn have no "private" income. Obviously, you can either believe me or not, but what I say is true.

there is nothing much else to say here... I can't prove that a false claim isn't true.

I was simply trying to give you all a truthful response to the questions posed.

 

No, you weren't. You haven't addressed a tenth of the allegations made against Zendik on this forum, which gives the impression that they are true and you can't deny them without having to lie. Your previous response was full of the kind of obfuscation and dissembling that we would expect from the Bush/Cheney campaign/administration.

Really, you haven't responded to much at all. But that must be because you're "too busy," right? Doing what, I wonder?

 

Don't know if Revel will return, but I still would like a response on the question of why Zendik will not permit condom use and why Zendik forces those who want to have sex to do it with permission and to have this private information reported the next day. I'd like to know if - in Revel's opinion/experience, Zendik coerces individuals to leave monogamous relationships and have sex with people on the farm - or if they reject monogamy as a lifechoice, and if so, why?

I'd like to know why Arol is permitted to have her own home while most Zendiks live in communal housing. I'd like to know why Zendik has chosen a hierarchical structure in their housing and access to resources (such as the art studios). Does Zendik view itself as egalitarian, and if so, how does it justify its system of social stratification?

Why, if Zendik is so concerned with the environment, would it use unsafe products such as used motor oil as paint? Revel, can you talk more about exactly how you tried to "save the mountain?" Because I personally view your website regularly and it seems to me that you would have at least *mentioned* your attempts to save the mountain or encouraged others on your site to help out to do so if you really were doing this.

Again I have to say that the defensive reaction from Revel only makes the claims here appear true. If this were all a misunderstanding and Zendik were really doing something legitimate that they deeply cared about, it seems to me that they would be very interested in clarifying what they are doing, what their rationale is, etc. But all I've seen here is an attitude of simply not CARING that apparently multiple people have had (or are reporting) nightmarish experiences like we've seen here. I truly don't believe that a legitimate community that truly wanted to make serious social change, that seriously cared for the environment, or that took its social mission seriously would be replying with such disregard and disdain for concerns that people have. JMHO.

 

The statement of the Zendik "managers'" 2002 income can be found on the following website which displays the tax/ income forms of 501 C3 non-profit organizations: http://www.guidestar.org/ To view the record you've got to sign up (it's free & easy). Then do a search by simply typing in "Zendik" in the line provided in the upper left. From there, click on Zendik and a new page will open. Select form 909 for 2002 and scroll down to page 14 of the form and you will find the phrase "Rent paid to officers for use of land $33,557." Unless there's an accounting trick here, the form seems clear enough to me. I invite anyone who doesn't believe me to check it out for themselves. My momma didn't bring me up to lie.

 

condoms are fine.... monogamy is prefered.... Arol lives in a house with many other people.... art studios art built for artists.... we don't use motor oil as paint.... we didn't *mentioned* our attempts to save the mountain on the website and for that we were wrong.... this seems to be a defensive reaction because it is.... our "rationales" for how we live are all outlined on zendik.org.... I'm sorry you had a "nightmarish experience"....

rev

 

double post

 

please don't be a dick... I already said that I didn't read the whole thread. I'm trying to be nice and answer questions.

As for the "Doing what, I wonder?" comment... you obviously aren't familiar with Zendik farm at all.

 

greenhornet:: yes, these are accounting tricks. Doing the taxes for a 501c-3 foundation is tricky, and at the advise of lawyers and accountants the land is to be put in "names" who then lease the land to the foundation.

 

No need to get pissy, "Rev." Obviously, this whole thread is striking a nerve if you're resorting to name-calling, right?

Then you should have read the whole thread before you even attempted to answer questions on this forum. After all, you're supposedly representing the views of your group here. Be prepared! By not answering these questions, you give the appearance that Zendik has something to hide.

Hmmm...let's see. Make-work projects for your new slaves--er, recruits. Cervical exams for your female members. Enemas. Monitoring members' sex lives. Printing unreadable magazines. Producing unlistenable "music." Am I missing anything?

Yeah, you're real "busy."

 

It is difficult for me to hear the negativity in this series of posts, but I have so far remained engaged in case anyone has questions about actual cult tactics.
____

Compassion, Balance, Connectedness...

...these are what I choose. It doesn't matter whether I agree with or approve of anyone, they still deserve compassion, especially those who have been hurt by cults, but even those who are suspect of being cultists. Cult mind control is not practiced maliciously, it is practiced by well-meaning people who are not fully aware of the implications of their behaviors.

Cultists sometimes practice judgementalism (withholding love from those disapproved of). Anti-cultists sometimes do too. Cultists sometimes practice witch-hunting. Anti-cultists can do so also. There is no need to give into fear of the unknown, or dwell on anger about suspected or confirmed wrongs.

People, especially cultists, can only hear what they are ready to hear. They may not be able to answer questions that are askew to their worldview, even though they may mean well, and try to be honest. While we patiently wait for others to be able to hear our statements and questions, they still deserve kindness. Help suspected cultists recover by showing them unconditional kindness, which they are often starved for.

There is less controversy when we know exactly what the objection is, and how to detect cultism. I can help you find effective yardsticks for detecting it. Cultism is not about hierarchy or profits or unequal treatment or unethical choices. There are many mistakes people make and differences in the values they hold. We are all on a journey. Be tolerant of this. Who is free of mistakes? Who can claim they alone hold the most perfect or most balanced value set? Group mind certainly does not, does it?

The thing that makes cults unacceptable is the way they dissolve families for the sake of an idealogy; and the way they bypass freedom of mind while making it appear that members are exercising freewill. Be intolerant of this.

These words are mine, and may have nothing to do with you.

Love and blessings to all,
Owl Watching Bear
Cult Recovery Counsellor

 

LIE.........my friend came out that place scared to death and his biggest complaint was that he was basically forced to have sex with people he did not want to have sex with.Before he went to that farm his soul was free,he was loving,kind and the most wonderful person to be around.When he came back he was in hiding,he was paranoid that zendiks would find him and he sat in his room for at least 3 months before even wanting to speak to people.He still has issues with that damn place.You cannot sit there and act as though that farm is the victim.If there is no wrong doing there then why are SO many people having issues with their time there??Also I would like to know where the farm stands on homosexuality? My friend is gay, yet he was told he was wrong and that he needed to be "changed". So, in that respect he was told he needed to have sex with women there.And yes, unprotected sex....

 

If I were still at Zendik Farm, I would have responded to the thread in the same way that Rev has.

Owl, Zendik Farm is an actual totalist group which uses mind control techniques to recruit and retain members. As a cult survivor and counselor, you might notice some warning signs in the text on their website: www.zendik.org.

Many people (yes, me too) who post messages here are ethically compelled to expose details of deceptive recruitment tactics, illegal/unethical practices, and ritualized psychological/physical abuse which they or their loved ones experienced while living on Zendik Farm.

Zendik Farm is secretive and defensive toward outsiders (and they believe that they are above the law), so information about the group's actual activities is very hard to find. By speaking out in a public forum, those who have had firsthand experience of Zendik Farm can shine a light on the group and perhaps prevent future abuses.

Since the thread isn't devoted exclusively to the cultic aspects of Zendik Farm, matters of finance, real estate, and philosophical integrity have also been discussed here. I hope there's been no confusion of profit motive with brainwashing.

 

The question is who do you believe?



I can personally vouch for the following, which I think are key reasons no one should ever go live at Zendik Farm:

1) The Zendik Farm tightly controls people's sexuality (an area of great psychological vulnerability) and humiliates people who do not conform to their often inexplicable sexual practices. Unfortunately, people, especially young people, are very influenced by coercion of this kind and probably feel a great deal of guilt & shame as a result.

2) They tolerate little or no dissention and no meaningful debate among members and commonly throw out anyone who voices anything that seriously departs from the Zendik party line.

3) The leaders' lifestyle, while not luxurious, exceeds that of the rank in file, and the organization is very hierarchical and undemocratic.

4) Recently, the Zendik Farm actively developed pristine land into a high-end subdivision for profit in direct opposition to the philosophies and politics laid out by Wulf Zendik, (see article which I posted earlier on this thread). It's not the development that's the issue so much as that, given the Zendik philosophy which they claim to live by, how utterly hypocritical developing their land in this way was. If they are this blind to their own philosophy and the ramifications of their actions, then what else can they justify?

5) There is a large and increasing number of people who have expressed great angst and severe depression for long periods of time after leaving Zendik, who seem to have a kind of post traumatic stress syndrome, probably caused by the coercive methods of mind control that the Zendiks utilize.

6) While Zendik claims to be "environmental warriors" trying to save the world, they can cite very few concrete actions that they have ever taken to actually help the environment.

7) Although called Zendik Arts, their magazine is merely a repetitive propaganda tool that seems to be mainly designed to raise money and recruit people, rather than being an informational, literary or artistic publication.



The fact that Zendik is a cult does not relieve its leaders and members from responsibility for the vicious mind games they play on people and surely upon themselves as well. To just say "they don't mean to do what they do" insults their, and our intelligence. They must know on some level that their way of life has become a sham, if it ever wasn't, and that's why Revel's first post was so angry & defensive. Healthy individuals who are secure in their own legitimacy and sense of self empowerment wouldn't respond that way. The Zendiks portray themselves as a "funky" freewheeling group of individuals who are working hard to save the world. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

I honor greenhornet, red lentil, and autumngrl for speaking up about issues they know about firsthand. I have anger at another organization just as you have toward Zendik; so I understand, I really do. I cannot speak firsthand about Zendik, but only about the tactics they appear to be using.

I did not mean to come out in defense of a corrupt organization--not at all--for my first post to this thread was in agreement with you, that Zendik appears to warrant caution, even though I have no direct experience with them.

You are doing just as I recommended, and I applaud you. Specifically, I said:

The thing that makes cults unacceptable is the way they dissolve families for the sake of an idealogy; and the way they bypass freedom of mind while making it appear that members are exercising freewill. Be intolerant of this.

Thank you for being intolerant of such organizations and their tactics. Such organizations do not deserve respect or protection under freedom of religion laws, because of the fact that they circumvent free will.

However, taking a stand against a corrupt organization does not mean taking a stand against it's members. Revel is a breathing human being. She or any member of Zendik who may currently speak up in defense of it need to be shown a better way. Unconditional love works better than criticism. Criticism only causes cultists to put up more defenses.

If your outreach is to protect people from going through the grief, or help those who have already suffered, you will not accomplish it by engaging with those still in the cult, but rather by engaging with those who might otherwise be taken in by it. If your outreach is to help people out who are already in, criticism will backfire.

I'm sorry you had to suffer the grief that such misguided organizations cause. We who have suffered so are uniquely able to warn people what cults really are. Keep up the good work.

Love and blessings,
Owl Watching Bear

 

Revel - There are folks on this forum that want REAL answers. Your replies thus far are reminiscent of Condie Rice testifying for the 911 hearings. Sad. Very sad.

Owl Watching Bear - I respect your thoughts on compassion, I really do. There IS something to be said for JUSTICE in this situation however.

 

I agree with Owl. Throwing harsh words back and forth with Rev or other Zendiks won't help anybody, and there's enough intense emotion on both sides of the Zendik fence to keep a stream of bickering going ad infinitum.

Let the Zendiks have their say (it would be nice to hear from more than just one). You're not going to get a straight answer out of them, but what they write will be telling enough.

 

I agree with Red Lentil & Owl that hostility is useless, however, it's our responisbility to expose the truth and to refute attempts by the Zendiks to gloss over their record. For example, Revel said that monogomy is "encouraged." If this is true, that's a radical departure. I think it's most important that people who've been there to relate their actual experiences but not resort to name-calling.

 

Yes, tales of firsthand experiences which cast doubt on Zendik's projected image expose and refute Zendik claims quite effectively. So I'm going to post more on Zendik sex protocol (as I experienced it) as soon as possible.

 

I think it's amusing that some of you think that Zendik should have a "record" that needs to be "glossed over" or departed from. Zendik is not a static organization or place. Things change. Things evolve...even Zendik Farm. Maybe some of the complaints have been fixed, maybe the complaints are total bullshit... it doesn't really matter. Perhaps people have been offended or hurt by their time at the farm, and that's unfortunate, really. But we're into something else. It seems to me that what you have here is two or three people who can't seem to get on with their lives. I'm unsure of what questions have been asked that I haven't answered. It seems clear that any answer will be negated by the zealous distain for all things zendik, no matter the explaination or truth.

I won't try again.

rev