Your thoughts on Abortion...

what about this:


a 1 week old human; a group of cells roughly the size of a pinhead.

e.g. a fourteen-year-old girl is horribly gang-raped and a sperm inseminates an egg; are you for or against a decision to abort the zygote at this (above^) stage?

to go back to my previous questions,
-does this cluster of cells has a soul? it is neither male nor female yet, and may even split into twins, who knows?
-is this cluster of cells a human being?

for the record, i agree with what you're saying on the value of life. however, i don't see it as being quite so black and white; my argument for a woman's right to abortion mainly has to do with particular cases such as the above. there are instances where abortion is understandable and acceptable.



peace

 

None of us made the decision how we were going to enter this world. But for each child no matter how it happens, God has prepared a soul for that child. God said He knew David before the womb. Are spirit merges with flesh at conception. At death, are spirit then returns to God. There is nothing on this earth, more precious that a human life. We cannot judge who is worthy and who is not. That is for God to do. When they first talked about abortion back in 1963, I was told it was necessary only if the life of a mother was in danger.
Now 42 years latter, and 46 million dead American children. It appears that statement was not true. Do you think a rape makes that child any less human. Do you think God loves that child any less because of an event the child had no control over. God loves the weak things of this world, just as much as He loves all of His creation. God never speaks about human life as one week or two weeks. Thats because all human life is equal to God. Only human kind put limits on what is human and what is not. Compounding rape with a murder, is not Gods way. I have read numerous stories of woman who have raised their sons and daughters, and these children were brought into this world through a terrible act, and by evil men. Yet God has a way of taking evil, and turning it around for good. When you put your faith in Jesus Christ, He works wonders that cannot be explained. You are never alone, when Jesus is at your side. When the Children of Israel had their backs to the Red Sea, and Pharaohs armies were about to slaughter them, but God opened the Sea before them. What should of been their grave, became their salvation. And the powerful Egyptian leader who was confident of victory, saw his army destroyed. That is what God is all about, He saves the weak, and brings down the strong. And we like God, should save, and protect the weak among us.

 

From the passages in the scripture that you are so fond of quoting:
"'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, [b] and I will cleanse them."

How did God cleanse in the old testament? Often by physically destroying that which was spiritually dirty. The Jews diaspora began during WWII, during the cleansing process. Or do you argue with how God operates?

God directs all things, and only the faithless (or spiritually dirty) do not see this.

And you would be wrong.

Bullshit.

1 corinthians 5:5
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

 

God directed the killing in the old testament, yet today we are in the age of grace. And we are in Gods new covanant. God no longer operates in this way.
The Jews in Israel today still donot know who their God is, but they will in the future. Christians donot physically kill a person to deliver their soul to satan.

 

Many people want to save the animals and the rainforest, but have little to no regard for human life. It is quite disgusting.

 

that's another one of those old testament problems, then.

in a nutshell?
at one time, long ago, god operated like hitler and was fond of 'cleansing the spiritually dirty'. he commanded the killings of thousands upon thousands of children..
but today, we are in an 'age of grace', and to kill thousands of children is abominable and people who do so are condemned to eternal hell.

it doesn't make sense.

& i wonder: why do we continue to tack on the old testament to the christian bible at all? it seems like if anything, it confuses people about Law.

 

I completely agree with you.

 

You are wrong.
John 1:17
"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."
Matthew 5:17-18
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. "

The law is still in effect. No tittles are gone from it, I say! No tittles!! tittle.. Umm... mmmhh.

Some do. Read Jewfaq.org (the section labeled G-d). They know God better than many christians.

God could, and would (if it were best for the soul) use a christian, or whoever, to destroy someone's flesh. Whether or not this would be to send the soul to "Satan" is up to God... only God knows what is best for the soul.
Romans 8:5-6
"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. "
Do you not know that it is wrong to think that the death of the flesh is the death of man? Do you not know that Jesus was not murdered on the cross, but was released from the flesh?

If you believe that destruction of the flesh is murder, you have a carnal mind (you mind the things of the flesh instead of the spirit)
Romans 8:7
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. "

The carnal mind cannot be subject to the law of God because it attaches too much significance to the flesh (which is why it is called carnal). It believes that property belongs to it instead of God (even the computer I am typing on belongs to God, although the carnal mind would think "This computer is owned by whoever bought it"). The carnal mind believes "This body belongs to me" while it is God's body. The carnal mind believes that it desires to do something of it's own will, instead of seeing that it is drawn forward by God's perfect will. The carnal mind just doesn't get it.

 

God still uses war to trim branches from the tree of life to make it healthier (just like we trim a bush to make it... bushier). You would think people get this by now- that death is God trimming the tree of life to grow it into something beautiful.

But noohhooohhhoohh... People just won't look at the big picture and say "never trim anything back God" because we want the tree to be all scraggly, uncared for, with an odd branch hangin out here/there. We, the tree, know better than the gardener, that the tree never needs a little trim. God I need some hot pussy....

 

..........
HAHAHAHA.....

i was thinking that by your first sentence. haha...

 

The groups that God directed Israel to kill were extreamly vicious types, they were involved in child sacrifice, and some of these groups were not fully human as well. But that gets us into another chapter of scripture. The Old Testament was given for examples, and shows how impossible it would be for a person to work out his salvation. It was also the Book that brought in the prophecies of Jesus Christ. Without the Old Testament, there would be no Jesus Christ.

 

Did God give moses the 10 commandments, or did Moses write those himself?

 

God.

Thou shall not steal.
God uses man to work in creation. You cannot do anything that God does not use you to do. Everything is God's. You can steal according to the carnal mind, for the object belongs to a man instead of God. Of course, according to the spiritual mind, everything belongs to God, and everything you do is done by God, so there is no stealing.

Thou shall not murder.
Murder implies that the soul is dead, not that the flesh is dead. According to the carnal mind which believes there is only life in the flesh, destruction of the flesh is murder. According to the spiritual mind, the flesh is simply a place of spiritual growth, so the destruction of the flesh would only take us to a new place of spiritual growth. Thou cannot murder. You should still judiciously decide whether the destruction of the flesh is appropriate, and have faith that God guides your final decision.

Thou shall not covet your neighbors wife. According to the carnal mind, the flesh of your neighbors wife (or your neighbors possesions) might be desirable. According to the spiritual mind, God provides everything you need so you will not covet (have desire for something God has not given you).

Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all Thy heart:
Yup. Pretty simple. You might need to figure this one out yourself. Or I might explain it to you.

Love thy neighbor as thyself.
If you know yourself as an active part of God's creation, you should recognize your neighbor as such too. Recognize your own failures and why they arise (if you can), so that you can help your neighbor with their own misunderstandings of God's love.

Honor thy Father and Mother.
This, once again, should be pretty obvious. God selected them as the human contact that you needed during childhood (if God gave you human parents). Understand and love them. Simple.

There are other commandments too.

Like, don't eat a huge burrito before you take a transatlantic flight if you don't have beano.

The other commandments (such as the one I just mentioned), all fall under the love thy neighbor as thy self (would you want to sit next to a farting stinky dude while you fly across the atlantic?). Not that God cares if you fart, God has a sense of humor, unlike some of us...

 

Everything is done by God so there is no stealing? Your logic is upside down. Man has free will. Man can steal or not, it is mans choice. That's the way God made it, and that is why God said it is wrong to steel. And that is why He states we should not steel. But man does steal, because man does what pleases man, and not God.

 

You are wrong. You have a carnal mind instead of spiritual.

God will do things with man that man desires to do because God causes the desires to arise in man for man's education.

You cannot steal. The carnal mind thinks of posessions as belonging to it, when everything is Gods. Once you have a spiritual mind, you will no longer see things as belonging to this man or that man, all belong to God. God cannot steal from God, and God uses us to move things around and build things in any way God sees fit (even if it causes a man with a carnal mind to think "I stole this"). The spiritual man knows that whatever he does is of God. The carnal man does not.

You have a carnal mind, which is readily apparent from your lack of understanding of God. The mind of the carnal man is still under the commandments of God, because he does not understand that God acts through him, and thinks in terms of the flesh (this is owned by this man or that man, instead of seeing everything as belonging to and controlled by God).

When the time is right (God only knows) your carnal understanding will be replaced by spiritual understanding.

 

What about the one that says gays should be killed? Do you follow that one? If you take that big book literally, you will be very confused and have no idea who or what god is. Besides, what's to say god is the same as he was 2000 years ago?

 

does god change his mind?!?

if so, i wonder how omniscient and omnibenevolent he really is!

 

God is not making men go out and sin so they can be educated. And so if the spiritual man goes out and kills someone he knows that was not his fault but that was God trying to educate him. Where on earth did you come up with this nonsense. And so if I just want a wide screen TV I can go steal one, but it is not really stealing, because after all it really belongs to God and He really gave it to me. GIVE ME A BREAK.

 

In the Bible God has held off judgment, if the people repented of their evil deeds. God sent Jonah of the wale to Niava to get the people to repent. Jonah did not like those people, and he wanted God to judge them. Still, he did what God told him to do hoping all the time they would not repent, and when they listened to him and did repent, Jonah became angery because they repented. And God did spare those people, despite Jonahs anger. The inner actions of man and God can be very strange sometimes. Yet if God changes His mind, there is a good reason for it.

 

God has given man a thing we call free will. God could stop all war, all murder, all evil everwhere. But then we would all be robots and God is not looking for robots. He is looking for men and woman to freely do His will because they love Him. In the Old Testament the Bible clearly points out that the few cells you donot believe are human. Are human. And the world will be judged by God for are mass murder of these precious children. Are excuses to God why they had to be ripped apart in their mothers womb will not fly, when we stand before the God of this universe. The Bible says it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Amber spoke correctly. Anytime a mother destroys the life of her child willingly, what else would you call them. Do you shy away from murder, because it is not politically correct to say. Amber spoke the truth. People who kill other people with premeditation in mind, are murders.
And that's the unvarnished truth.