Your thoughts on Abortion...

im going to assume you are a conservative? am i wrong? but does simply giving money solve the problem [interesting this topic came up the day of the live 8 concerts] as with africa and anywhere there is poverty, simply money cannot accomplish anything...think of all that comes with having a child [or multiple childs]-food [can cost lots even if you are thrifty], clothing [again you can be thrifty, but still there is a limit], shelter [lots of money again], education to end the poverty cycle [money for registration, boks, supplies etc]...poverty is a very hard place to be stuck

i toom am sorry then...if you mean this as it sounds and you won't take any arguments i present into consideration, then how are you supposed to grow...cause with the postings of the "genocide" stuff, to me, im afraid, it comes off as slightly "conspiracy theorist" stuff

whoa, did you just do that? i think comparing the anti-christ to same sex marrige is totally out of line...not only does it severly belittle me, and the topic of samesex marrige [i am not gay, although that last sentance made it sound it], but frankly it makes you lok quite, arrogant if i may be blunt...so then you just plainly ignore the scripture i give you? i see you dont takt the NT literally, that is too bad for you [yes, that was sarcasm]

ive seen Amber do this many times [call it "like it is", or "as she sees it" thing] and im afraid i simply dont buy it...
John 8:15,16 "you judge according to the flesh; i am not judgind anyone.[16] But even if I do judge, My judgement is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent me"

ok, not the best defense, but its the best i have at the time being...to me, it just seems like taking the Will of God [yes, we do the will of God, but we do not take it from Him], and God's infinite knowledge into our own selves, our imperfect, fleshy selves...that is somethign we will never have [the full knowledge]...its just one of the thigns im a stickler with...like the 2nd commandment

 

oops...sorry that was my mistake...i didnt mean to put in that last question mark...i accedentally do that sometimes...it meant to be a statement of how bad the US government welfare system is...

 

well yes, for the non-faithful, the first is a very viable option...HOWEVER...personally, i would not want to be shipped around from home to home being abused and whatnot...

some kids do get lucky, and wind up with good lives, but many just get pounded by the system...

 

although pro-choicers seem like it...they are not "pro-abortion"...again, i am un opinionated...

i dont think that a blastocyst is a human, however, a third trimester fetus, with a ventalator and some care, could have the potential to develop into a great member of society...

i just dont think it is right for a man to tell a woman that she must be an un-human incubation machine for 9 months...

 

Can someone quote the phrase in the bible that states abortion is murder and the required punishment? Also the phrase which states at what stage a fetus is alive.

Also, Burbot, this is how it works. If you are in their little christian groupie, you can insult people and be a wanker under the guise of quoting scripture and stating "what god says".

Also, of course they are conservatives. They are Christians from Texas, don't you know the stereo-type?

 

This is what I mean. She is full of shit, don't even try to argue with them. You will just wear yourself out.

 

I agree.

 

Of course it's not wrong if God allows it. There is a time and place for everything, including war, murder, rape, etc. Usually they are best served up as fiction...

Attack Amber? I wasn't aware of any ad hominems until yours. I simply stated the truth : God allows and leads some people into abortion because it is the right thing to do. The same way God leads some into war because it is the right thing to do- not everyone will agree with it, but God knows it's right.

 

That's a cop out, if you were dating/married to a woman who was considering it, you'd have an opinion. You should, anyways.

Personally, I hate abortion debates because they go nowhere and always deteriorate into shouting matches. I try to stay out of them.

Still, I'll say this. I'm split, in my own opinion. On the one hand, I believe everyone has the freedom of choice and the government shouldn't be telling women what they can do in their own uterus. That's a bit much. Also, it's hard for me to see a blob of undifferentiated cells as human, aside from being human potential. The problem is, the poor are often forced into abortions, because they can't afford the baby the pregnancy will result in, and they can't afford medical care during and after the pregnancy. Often they can't afford contraception or aren't educated about it. Telling them not to have sex is not right, it's like saying if you're poor you can't have sex. I think that if we had organized our society with compassion rather than greed for money and power, this might not be a problem. We wouldn't have people who can't afford medical attention for themselves and their fetus, or to afford to raise the baby. The whole system (in many ways other than this) is against the poor/working class (who get the majority of abortions). Though there are the fucktards out there who use abortion for casual birth control, that's the exception not the rule. Most abortions are of necessity.

On the other hand, I don't like the idea of taking innocent life. I'm against late term abortions for sure. Contraception would be far better, and yeah, not having sex at all, but that's unlikely (gotta be realistic).

And moonjava:
"Then sorry, dude, I can't take you seriously if you refuse to believe what the Bible says."

That's an ignorant attitude. This is why I stay out of these debates almost always. People like you, who won't even consider other opinions, are the ones not worth talking to. What's the point? It'd be like talking to a wall. I'm willing to discuss, but you are just in here to spout your rhetoric. Why bother?

 

No, that's satanic conservatives. Don't confuse God with the political propaganda of satanists.

Proverbs 11:24-25
"A liberal soul is made fat, And whoso is watering, he also is watered.
Whoso is withholding corn, the people execrate him, And a blessing [is] for the head of him who is selling. "
Here is Isaiah 32:7-8 King James Version:
The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.
8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.

Here are the exact same verses (Isaiah 32:7-8) in Youngs literal translation (this should teach you about the meaning of the word liberal)
"And the miser -- his instruments [are] evil, He hath counselled wicked devices, To corrupt the poor with lying sayings, Even when the needy speaketh justly.
8 And the noble counselled noble things, And he for noble things riseth up. "

Miser is interchanged with churl in the first verse (hopefully you understand the negative connotation here, unless you were raised to believe that misery and churlishness are good traights).
In the second verse, Noble is interchanged with Liberal.

Here is the verse that you misquoted
Isaiah 32:5
Young's literal translation "5A fool is no more called `noble,' And to a miser it is not said, `rich;'
King James Version (that you misquoted) "The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful. "

Really? Where did you get this information from? The same source that told you "God says liberal is vile"? Lol....

I do see how you came to your conclusions: you do not know God or you like to lie. Which is it?

 

Cerberus- one of the best things about knowing God is that you can quote scriptures that refute what certain fools say about God (this is against those who claim God says this or that).

My Aunt Freda is one (Born again from Texas). She is totally hilarious. I love to argue about (I mean discuss) God with her. Of course, she is completely brilliant and knows the hypocracy of what she says- which is why I love her. Hilarious...

 

Yes the Bible does speak of the value of an unborn child in Exodus 21, verses 22, and 23. Here it speaks of two men fighting and one of the men by accident mind you, strikes a woman who is pregnant. As a result the woman loses her child. Because it was an accident the Bible states the man should be punished, and pay some kind of fine. The Bible also states that if any mischief should follow that incident, such as the man not wanting to pay the fine, ect. The Bible says that mans life will be required. Another words, that man should be put to death. And the key verse 23, states because it is a life for a life. The Bible sees no difference between the mans life and the life of the unborn child. If you read the verse you will clearly see it does not mention anything about how far along the woman is in her pregnancy. The Bible also gives a warning to anyone who would harm children. It states, for those who would do this, it would be better for them, if they had never been born.

 

Abortions cost money to So how do they come up w/that money? Unless they are totally crazy have someone hit there stomach or take drugs for it.

 

i thought of this last night in the bathroom...

one of the common christain arguments is that life begins at conception...please define conception [as you see it]...

and also, do you believe in use of "the pill"

 

how about miscarriges? are they a womans fault too?

what if the woman falls down the stairs and the baby dies? is that her fault? as it was the man who by no fault of his own hit the woman

 

ok, ill get to the point of "the pill" and conception....

if any of you who believe that conception sis the beginning of life, yet use the pill...you are all murderers...the pill does nothign to stop ovulation or conception, it makes the uteral wall unable to have the embryo implant, so no blastocyst or fetus can develop...

 

A woman falling down a flight of stairs, may of been responsible for that fall, or may not be. Still, if she lost her child because of it, she would of already suffered enought. If she killed her child on purpose, she would be guilty of murder. The man that caused the woman to lose her child because of reckless fighting would of lost nothing, yet that is why the Bible demanded some payment from that person, to help cover the womans loss. The Bible did not demand the life of the man if he paid for his reckless behavior. Yet, if he said he would not pay for the loss of that child, then his life would be required. Because as the Bible clearly stated. It is a life, for a life.

 

Matthew 5:38-42

yet, you probobly have somethign to counter that one...but im sticking with it

 

Amen to that!!

 

that reasoning could be used for anythign...

i try and knife a guy, i succeed, but in the act of doing it, i cut off both my ears and mangle my face...would i then be off the hook because i payed for what i did?

but then i return to you, and
Matthew 5:38-42 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."