Your summer "List"

abusing methylone is 10,000 times worse for you than abusing ketamine. You will absolutely destroy your serotonin system abusing bombs like that, ketamine damage takes dedication to get.

But actually you have it backwards . . . In doing ketamine, I've learned that my pot addiction is like my ketamine addiction, not the other way around.

 

On Olney's lesions:

"When Auer was asked in 1998 whether persons undergoing anesthesia with Ketalar were at risk of these changes, his reply was that he doubted that it was even a remote possibility because of fundamental differences in metabolism between the rat and human brain."

On long term use:
"The first large-scale, longitudinal study of ketamine users found that heavy ketamine users had impaired memory by several measures, including verbal, short-term memory and visual memory. However occasional (1-2 times per month) ketamine users and ex ketamine users were not found to differ from controls in memory, attention and psychological well-being tests. This suggests that occasional use of ketamine does not lead to prolonged harm and that any damage that might occur may be reversible when ketamine use is stopped.[91]"

So, seems to me to be very similar to MJ use. Detrimental effects of regular use, but fully reversible.

M1 is a very unknown thing. But it -does- seem to be among the seratonin bombs, and these show signs of having potential for serious, permanent damage to vital areas of brain function. Granted it remains an unknown. Also, from my perspective it's your brain, do with it what you like. So long as you aren't in a position where you are responsible for anyone, anyway(no kids). Some people -are- going to overdo it, and quite frankly, we will be in debt to those who do, as they are our canaries in the mineshaft. Though, those who overdo a variety of chemicals aren't really useful case studies.

 

lol you didn't copy and paste the part about urniary tract infections. Don't give me this its like mj bullshit. Plus this study with ketalar, i would like to know who was it funded by ? Ketamine after all runs along the lines of pharmaceutical as its used on animals, the elderly , and babies it would not surprise me if there is a certain slant on the issue especially if its something that will be involved with babies.

 

I missed the UTI bit. That looks a bit on the distressing side.

Dunno, I've gotten a strong impression from people that it's believed to be relatively safe. Regardless of whether it is or no, belief matters here.

Personally, I've seen far more people fall into k with negative consequences on their lives than I have all the mdmx family put together, and I tend to give warnings against overuse/abuse of most any drug. Aside from lsd.

 

so have I on that last paragraph and the number of mdx users I know far outweigh the k users i know.

The idea of comparing something where you can't even remember your name or locate your tits or dick to marijuana is absurd. I just forget where my car keys are on marijuana.

 

it won't let me +rep you for this :|

too bad.. nice to see some relevant contributions.

IME:
ketamine damage to attention span and memory seem to last just a bit longer than the half-life... so after a HUGE binge i'm a bit foggy for a week or so, but then i'm back to what i perceive to be normal...and as you've said regarding brain chemistry, science shouldn't even begin to think it has any idea that "normal" even exists

 

DMT
2C-B
4-AcO-DMT
MDMA

DOC? if i ever find any ever again? it has disappeared from my life completely and i am very very very sad. maybe even DOI instead. almost as fun. much more better than DOM. both of them.

 

Well, subjective experience of such things is not really that useful. I realize I've ranted about 'normal', but there does exist at least some fuzzy concept of baseline. And subjective experience of aftereffects tends to be different in many cases than measurable neuropathological effects. For instance, in the case of MJ, there are quite measurable symptoms of intoxication that last up to 60x the subjective intoxication period. And lesser effects that can last a month or more. So subjective experiences here are an uncertain measure. Brain chemistry is weird.

However the mental effects of K do seem to trend toward fully reversible. Don't know about the bladder thing, signs of possible permanent bladder damage is a bit upsetting. UTI itself, in the short run, isn't that big a concern. UTIs suck, but they get better. Go go antibiotics for the win.

But mdxs show potential for causing permanent damage to your capacity to feel happy. I can think of very few things more horrible than that. So, I tend to poke at people to be careful about em. Even if I don't always follow my own advice.

 

Well, the abuse patterns are different too though. Most people I know that run into K, and decide they like it, almost universally abuse it for a bit. It just seems to be the thing to do with it. You decide you like it, you do it for a bit, then you do a lot, then you become insanely boring and lose a bunch of friends because you have this idiot notion that it's a 'social' drug. And you're less interesting to be around even sober, and often fuck up aspects of your life. Then you sort of come out of it, stop doing k, and sort of roll your eyes at the next kid who gets into it.

Or at least, that's kinda what it looks like from the outside. I didn't like the stuff, so never really got into it. But lots of my friends at some point did the k binge thing. So it's kinda understood. People find it annoying, and roll their eyes at the k kid, but there seems to be an understanding.

Also, the damaging aspect of K doesn't seem to be the uses that make you forget you name, it's more the high frequency low doses that seem problematic. K-holes are scary to people around you, but seem less likely to be something people are going to be doing frequently.

With E, it's different. I know way more people who use E. And most people I know talk about the danger of overdoing it. And every now and again, we get to watch some rare person fuck up. Usually on the outskirts of the social network. And watch them -change-. And slowly dissolve into a strange sub-human, deranged by the drug. So not pretty. And they don't really seem to recover.

I have no idea if M1 has the same potential. But the possibility does exist, so I tend to advice caution. From some reports I've seen the danger -does- seem to be somewhat lower, but we really don't know at this point. And most of all, I think this answers your question of why people react more strongly to reports of serious M1 abuse than they do to reports of k abuse. Because we've seen lots of people bounce back from k abuse, little worse for the wear aside from having completely hosed a portion of their life, and made a general ass of themselves. The same is not true for M1.

 

That last post was a great read autumnbreeze. I compare ketamine to heroin often and that's probably a bit to biased in the other direction. Cocaine is probably the fairest comparison. While I'm sure its less likely and usually through the needle its not unheard of for people to have near death/profound experiences with cocaine either. Ketamine has kind of filled its shoes since the quality of coke is fairly crappy today, they obviously have different effects but both club drugs and stuff.

When I injected 200 mgs of m1 I knew I was never going to touch ketamine again. I still think about it constantly though, I have a craving but I know it can't be satisfied through k. Last summer my room was a little k den for a few weeks, junkies , needles, straws, vials, powder all strewn about. Good times.

 

Huh. Don't hear too much about people injecting k. I guess I know it gets done by people who really get into it, but I seem to be somewhat buffered from that side of things. I do honestly think I'd consider injecting M1 at some point. Once. Just to see what it's like.

It does seem like k addictions just kind of 'wear off' at some point though. Sometimes it just goes away, sometimes it gets replaced by some other addiction.

I seem to have personally lucked out and avoided getting really addicted to anything. Aside from nicotine(I hate nicotine). If it was physically possible to become addicted to lsd, I'd have managed it. If I had a steady supply, I'd probably use it about every 2 weeks. More often than that seems to wear on me. I'm sort of addicted to variety, it seems.

 

oh yah alot of junkies kind of laugh at people powdering their nose with it. Its just that natural junky arrogance and kind of reaction towards the needle having such a stigma. I guess it feels like its something they own. If you do inject m1 (just once) do it at 200 mgs unless your oral dose is lower than that. I go im injection you're on your own if you go for iv injection, but its a completely different animal im injection. Its like k, e, and l mixed into one. Disassociating, euphoric and hallucinogenic. Do you live in Cali?

 

We were comparing K and MJ in terms of their patterns of use, not their subjective effects or danger.

Ketamine has been shown to cause urinary tract problems in extremely heavy users. Multi-year, multi-gram-a-day addicts. This is what I mean; damage from ketamine takes dedication to get. Serotonin bomb damage, true, powerful, life altering, nearly or fully irreversible damage, can be gotten from just one summer of irresponsible use.

They are just two different beasts. Nobody is saying ketamine is harmless . . . but as drugs go, it's pretty high on the list in terms of safety, in many ways. I also know many people who do K and can't control it. That only speaks to it's addictive potential considering its price/duration of effects/ROA/nature of effects/etc. In this regard, aside from price and effects, it is almost identical to cocaine. K addicts use K almost exactly like cocaine addicts you coke. But to actually damage oneself from k . . . good luck. You could go through an oz of K in a month and not have any, I repeat, any permanent effects. Good luck getting through an oz of methylone/mdma in a month and not feeling like your brain went through a blender for a long, long time, if not forever.

 

This really surprises me, but I still can't bring myself to show any interest in K. Just sounds so fucking yucky, isn't this shit used as a horse tranquilizer?

 

Youre wrong man, I'm sorry to tell you but you are. I've never used even a gram of ketamine in a day in my life, Or if i did , barely. Yes I did use it for two years but I had used mj for 7 previous to that, and I understand the comparisons you were trying to make. This is personal experience man, my story, and while the majority of ketamine users may take much more to have similar physical problems or some may be lucky and have no problems at all, I have trouble believing I am that much of an anomaly. I had no history of serious physical problems or conditions prior to getting the urinary tract infection. I'm just saying what happened to me man and i myself suspected it stemmed from ketamine use, recent investigation has only supported this so you can go ahead and pull out any statistic you can find out of the air or your ass, and its not like I'm dying or anything but its kind of disturbing and uncomfortable to bring up on an Internet forum. Maybe try to show slight sympathy and at least try to listen to what I say, as I merely am presenting experience.

 

Just found a source for ethaqualone Never thought I'd get to try ludes but that is the closest possible analog. We are living in the golden age of of new drugs, legal (sorta) just a click away, and usually cheap as dirt. And 99.9% of people don't have a clue. I'm rambling, think the mephedrone I just did is kicking in. Excuse me while I download some porn

 

Speaking of ass, there are a few activities involving one that can cause a UTI...sure it was the k?

 

No I'm not 100% sure, do you see any part where I wrote it without a doubt is from the ketamine?

Can you blame mdma a 100% for a lack of feeling happiness after heavy use?
depression happens for a variery of reasons and is way more rampant than a urinary tract infections.


I'm having more of an issue with the biased view towards certain drugs regardless how new they are and ridiculous assertions like methylone is 10,000 times worse than ketamine for you. I don't know if he's trying to get under my skin or I got under his but a drug that was 10,000 times worse than any psychoactive compound to me is absurd, unmeasureable and most likely = death. I know these drastic exaggerations to from being a k user, I don't know if its a way to justify use or what but I don't care to really speculate.

I mean if people want to use ketamine and come with questions and roa's and all that I have no problem just telling them without questioning their use or anything. Its the individuals choice i do think sometimes we overglorify certain drug use though. I find it weird to that like a few years ago it mainly seemed to dwell in the rave scene and alot of the people I knew into real psychedelics did not like it, it seems to have creeped into the psychedelic scene more now.

 

Likewise....

 

Well If that's directed to me I'm sorry if I'm a little harsh on your kitty crystals but when you have negative symptoms appearing yourself and see other people you care about just deep into the shit leaving needles in their arms saying things like "Ketamine makes you tell the truth and I don't want to live past 40, who would want to live long" it tends to make you react more negatively. Not saying I never had good experiences on it either and sorry if you thoroughly enjoy it and it hits a soft spot but its something people should be careful with if you don't want to take anything else I've said to heart, then for no other than because of the severe motor coordination impairment it causes which I think everyone can agree on or you haven't experienced k