young mom's

Does anyone aside from myself have a signifigant other in their life to share the responsiblity of parenting?

I commend all the Mother's & Father's who are parenting on their own. I do not commend the young parents who are letting their parents raise their children so they can go out and do more crazy crap. I think that is so wrong. (my opinion)

I know parenting is hard. It has been for me at least. I haven't had any help raising my children other than when my Husband is home from work. We have a great days and our rough days. My children are only 19 months apart and they are both boys. The 5 year old is easier than the almost 4 year old independant wise. My youngest is very attached to me. They are good boys, smart boys. I am blessed to have them.

 

Of course not...all those babies are the work of -God-.

 

OSF, let me holla at you a minute



I read your post. What I didn't see was any reference to why feminism was started/necessary. It boils down to us wanting to be seen as people, not cooks or maids or baby machines. Nobody in this world wants to live in somebody else's box. Most of us on this forum are intelligent enuff to known that society does not defined us, and if they live long enuff, the ones that don't know will. Any human being is extremely complex. That complexity was not recognized in women.

The way women had to live their lives was less than human.

That being said, the issue is not us. As a woman I improve myself, become stronger, and you as the man become weaker and run away? Something is wrong with that picture and it damn sure ain't us.

I guess I can see where one would look at it and say that the Man has been somewhat displaced. And I guess I could see where the Man is unsure of his role. And I guess I can see where the Man would feel intimidated and feel useless by what he perceives as a our lack of need for him.

But then again, based on those things, I wouldn't consider him a man.

Survival of the fittest is a principle of nature.



So ya'll motherfuckers better get fit........or get the hell on

 

Preach it, sister...

So OSF, looks like you're making an ass out of yourself (surprise, surprise ). Maybe in your little imaginary world, your reasoning works, but back in the really real world, where the really real people live (women included as people, much to your dismay, I'm sure), you sound like an irresponsible, deadbeat piece of filth. Maybe in an alternate universe somewhere, your logic is actually works, but in this plane of existance, you (unfortunately for you, you poor soul) have to be responsible where you shoot off your load at and what the results of getting your jollies can be.
If you can't accept that Penis + Vagina can = Baby (or babies!), perhaps you should keep your dick in your pants so you aren't inconvenienced by a life you and your penis helped create.

 

You ladies can call me a pig, old fasioned or sexist or whatever, but It is my firm belief that a child needs two parents, and that at least one of these parents should be with the child at all times until the kid is old enough to enter school. Of course, sometimes a single mother just happens and there's nothing to be done about it, and I commend those mothers who do their best to raise their kids alone, but being a single mother should never be your goal.

It takes two people to make a baby, and it takes two people to turn a baby into a well adjusted adult. That is just the way nature made us, for better or worse.

If I ever helped to make a baby I would do everything in my power to be a real father to the child, regardless of my feelings for the mother, or her feelings for me.

This is also the main reason I take sex and relationships very seriously, and am in no hurry to "hook up" with the next attractive lady I meet or have sex with anyone I don't truly love. It isn't the most fun policy one could have towards sex and relationships, but I do feel that it is the most responsible. Of course I'm not perfect, and I have given into carnal desires and had sex with three women I didn't really love, while it was fun at the time and didn't result in any STDs or babies (three cheers for condoms), I really do regret it because I know it was irresponsible.

So, the lesson of the day: If it's not with someone you believe you could spend the next 18+ years of your life with, you shouldn't be having sex. Masturbation works just fine when you just need a sexual release.

 

Missfontella,



I understand the "why" of the feminist movement. I just don’t think that what people thought like in the 60’s should have anything to do with what people think like in the present. Which is why I only tried to explain the effects of the social reconstruction on the present family.

You are right that there is something wrong with the role of the father now. I agree. What I disagree upon are the causes. The causes, as I see them, are the effects of the feminist revolution.

 

think about that logic


men are not living up to their responsibilities and that's our fault?


funny, if I wasn't living up to my responsibilities as a mother, that would be my fault too


I don't know if that is what you are saying but it sounds like "when in doubt, blame her"

so tell me, what did MEN do to help damage the role of the father?



If you say "nothing", then this discussion will take a nasty turn

 

the biological father of my lil monk promised me that he would stick by me no matter what . . . . well he ditched me after i wouldnt take some kind of "natural abortion" in a bottle. so fuck him.
her REAL daddy, my awesome boyfriend is the best thing thats ever happened to us. kudos to the real men out there

 

You should have stopped there. It would have been a lot better for you. You recognized and left it at a difference of opinion. Something a reasonable person would do. But then you went into ...

I spent about an hour thinking and typing that up. I can’t take all the credit, I’ve spent years reading what the great minds of this earth have to say about the issue. Those great minds have helped shape mine. Not to say that my mind is great. It isn’t.

Funny thing is in all the years I spent developing my opinions, of all the comments about all the theses in all the books I have read or heard that critique and praise social reconstruction I have never read or heard anything like the comments posted by our own thoughtful Hippielngstckng:

In case you missed her insight into the ill effects of the feminist and sexual movements on the role of the father in present society I will quote it here for you ... are you ready for this pearl?

Fucking brilliant hippielngstckng.

Fucking brilliant.

A lot of women didn’t reply to my post but a few did. Out of the few that did reply you have the dubious honour of having typed the most idiotic, childish thing. Other women can refrain from the personal insults and reply intelligently, why can’t you?

What was that about "desperate" again hippielngstckng?

Hold on ... you did say something intelligent, whether it helped your case or hurt it will be left up to the good readers of hipforums. Once again I will quote what you said for the people who tend to skip over the obviously pointless posts in a thread:

You have no idea how right you are.

 

...

You are reaching a little too far now.

Listen carefully now or else risk making yourself look like an ass too! I did not once make the claim that men have no responsibility for their children! Somehow you are getting this from what I posted. I don’t know or how or from what but you seem to be getting that idea. All I did was give a reason for a general claim made by a female. So far my reason stands, as you haven’t done a thing to prove it wrong. You haven’t said anything about it, you haven’t given an explanation of your own. You probably haven’t even considered it as an option.

I figure the reason you haven’t considered my explanation is because you are a female and are personally insulted when I make a claim about the ill effects of a movement that was started by and for your sex.

[I could be wrong so I separated that line from the paragraph so you could target something. It seems you have trouble aiming your response.]

So before you continue please keep in mind a few things. 1) I didn’t claim fathers are irresponsible. 2) The feminist revolution did change the role of the father into an ambiguity. 3) I don’t think men should shoot and leave.

Write what you are going to write and then come back and check it against these three things I have noted. So far you missed my point completely. I wouldn’t want you to look like an ass or anything.

 

sometimes mothers ditch fathers.

My daughters mother never told me why she left me, just disappeared( I now assume it was because she was pregnant). 8 years later I get served papers to attend a child support hearing. My daughter is 11 and through no fault of my own, I have seen her 3 times. If her mom would have given me the birth certificate I asked for last year, I could have transferred (split toured) back to California so I could see her more often. But she waited until I no longer had that option to get me one. took her a year. Not all absent dads are shitbags. My daughters custodial mom is scum and I will always hate her for denying me more than 7 years of my daughters life. Think about what you miss in the first 7 years. I still miss a lot now, but at least she can email me about it and I can call her as often as possible.

 

you are right crummy


and that shit is on her head, she is a bad mother

My question is how is it that I was "ditched" by a man and left to raise his son on my own and that still manages to fall back into the lap of women's lib.

OSF, I understand your point

but at the end of the day, these men are choosing to abandon their children

I just don't see how that can be anything but their own selfishness

 

Missfontella,

I am not making a case in favour of male abandonment. Not once in this thread did I say that it was right for men to leave the women they impregnate.

All I have argued is that the general statement made in the fourth post of this thread can be understood and explained by the phenomenon of social reconstruction.

I have not made a moral judgement of the act. I have explained how the sexual and feminist movements have had ill effects on the role of the father!!!!

Holy shit people!

 

The role of the father was in most families pretty marginal (working outside the house most days of the week, not interfering too much with the raising of the kids other than being 'the provider').. and now they are forced to be more active because we woman want to expand our minds as well by getting educated and working.

Personnally, my ideal situation would be one where me and my partner can both have a parttime job.. so I don't really see why there's an 'ill effect'.. I just don't.

 

First of all ....calm the fuck down

you know I got an itchy trigger finger

Now, when I read the neverending post, I could see how women's lib affected MARRIAGE. But the connection to fatherhood escapes me. We live in an ever-evolving(sp) society. Seems like, even if marriage was affected, that would have little effect on the father's need and want to raise their children. In other words, why didn't men just start being the best damn weekend dads you have ever seen?

unless......

they weren't that interested to begin with

and the deconstruction of marriage just made it easier to walk away

by the by, I don't think you are advocating deadbeat dads. Its just that, you cite women's lib as the cause

oppression of women--- women's lib---men began to be "less than" fathers


out of those cause and effects
2 out of 3 were done by men

all of them lead to this issue

Now ask yourself, why is the one thing done by women cited as the cause of men's current behavior?

 

I don’t agree that the role of the man in a family pre-feminazism [oh relax, it’s just a joke] was marginal. I can understand how it would be marginal if all that was meant by ‘family’ was ‘direct and physical influence on the young’. Unfortunately family means a great deal more and is reliant on a great deal more than hanging out with children.

Way to idealistic. Way way way to idealistic. Your argument would be that because of feminism women are better educated, have expansive minds and work a great deal more thus forcing men to take a more active role in [your definition of] family.

If that was the case do you think this thread would be here?

 

You’ll have to forgive me, it is very frustrating to have to repeat that which is already written. Even more frustrating to take flak for an opinion.

A shift in the role of women means a shift in the role of male interaction with women. There is no more intimate interaction between men and women than that shared in marriage. If the role of women is shifted in marriage than the relationship of men and women is also shifted. As the role of the mother changes the role of the father changes. There is the connection. I already mentioned the connection, here:

This is where you go wrong. You say it seems like an effect on marriage would have little effect on the father. Fact of the matter is that it has had an effect on the father. This isn’t just my opinion. There are more fatherless babies than ever before. There are more babies being born out of wedlock than ever. There are more single mothers than ever before.

What is this? Progression of the topic?!?!? No way!

In a broad and general sense yes. But you have to look further at the pull of nature and the pull of nurture to see how the societal reconstruction did more to hurt than help. See how males evolved. See how society adopted marriage. See how feminism brought us back to nature. See how confusing the use of human nature has become.

We rely on it and deny it at the same time. You should be taking that away from the neverending post.

Cause and effect. The relationship is repeated with every cause and effect. Of course every cause is an effect but every subsequent effect is not an effect of that one cause. That leads us to absurdity and an ill effect on responsibility that would reconstruct society into chaos.

if only it were that simple.

 

OSF, please read your first post. Your first post said, "Well, you can hardly blame the fathers!" This suggests that you support the idea of men leaving because they don't know their roles, allegedly because of womens lib. And the act of being a father is standard, it shouldn't change because women want to be treated as equal human beings. That is how all of this started, and maybe now you can see why I thought you supported this idea.

If the circumstances surrounding your hypothesis are correct, it is because of the man's failure to recognize the importance of a male role model in a child's life (or failure to care). This is not something that you should try to justify by pointing a finger at history, and saying "Well, it's not my problem anymore, SHE can handle it on her own." This leads to problems in children later on... just take a look at the statistics of criminals who come from broken homes in comparison to those who do not. I'm sure you'll see what I mean, if you do.

So in response:
1) In my opinion, deadbeat dads are irresponsible, and famous for finding ways to shuffle the blame onto the mother. I have experience here... So believe me, I know.
2) If history is the excuse men are using for not taking care of their kids, it makes me nauseous. Like I said, even if your hypothesis is correct, too many men use that hypothesis to shirk responsibility and justify their actions. I think that is horrible and detestable, and I still think it sounds like a very contrived excuse that is very convenient for any man who doesn't feel like sticking around to use.
3) If you don't think men should shoot and leave, why would you want to hold them blameless in your very first post? Do you support the idea that men get to skip out, holding womens lib responsible for their disappearance, because it sure looks that way.

All I am saying is this: If this is the reason men are using nowadays to justify non-involvement, it is disgusting and wrong. Period. But yes, my dear friend, that's my opinion. And I'm sticking to it.

 

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

I have.

No it isn’t.

Two words ... rest of history. [that’s more like eleven words]

No it wasn’t.

Please give me a reference to this argument in another form. I might not have read it yet. Thanks!

This is what happens when you’re born ugly.



At least I take time to respond properly ms. yes/no.