WTF is with anarchy?

Most anarchists that I've hung out with, well... have been motley crews. Many of them very noble, although chaotic, groups of people.

I, often, did not like the violent attitudes and indifference concerning violence held by many practicing American anarchists. Outwardly many of them disavowed violent America, but, at times, allowed violence to infiltrate their own domains and even to penetrate into their own actions.

Unfortunately, they were willing to let chaos rule the roost of their communities -- and often it did.

 

ANARCHY! lol i never got the idea of really fucking up a community for the fun of it

Poetic Terrorism is better, chaos in an anarchic form is really pointless.
If your going to do anything that relates to Chaos don't do it with an empty meaning...

That is true chaos

 

-In the simplest or most basic ways of life there is no need for government. It is only as we become brainwashed into thinking we want a bunch of crap no one actually needs that we then began to need order.

If you didn't have any possessions and you didn't own any land and instead you were in a place where everyone gathered there own food from the wild and slept on the ground there would be no need for government- there would be nothing to govern. If there was no "money" and every one was commonly decent (didn't rape or kill) Anarchy would be the natural state an oddly....wait, is that utopia?

 

There are countless of historic figures, philsophers/writers who believe in Anarchy. Noam Chomsky for one has a pretty solid stance on Anarchism.

 

Don't view anarchy as crazy fuckers running around with no rules. People have stereotyped it. Think of it more as, a world in which you are free to do what you like. Why should we elect people (people, yes thats right, everyday people) to run our countries and institutions? Why do we need rules, boundaries? Why are we made to feel like we should earn human rights? surely each being is born.into the world with rights? yet here we are, being told what we can and can't do! Freedom of speech? Like fuck!

Imagine a world of people, living freely and in peace, without rules then there is nothing to break, no one would be higher or lower than the next, we would all be equal and FREE! Freedom is.something we should be born with but in actual fact its something we need to earn, or we need to live in a specific country to have 'freedom of speech'. It's wrong. People seem to think we need leaders! We need nothing but the love of the world and the people.

 

Ok..... Governments = money. Money = control, control of your whole life! Why live just to be a slave to money then die?! What kind of life is that?? Why not just do what you like, feel free to be yourself, without the boundaries then people wouldn't always want to.break the rules. ' you can't do this ' actually oushes people to want to do this. Eliminate money and then you eliminate most crime. Eliminate government and you eliminate boundaries, barriers, differences.

 

So basically, you just described how to eliminate governments, so that we can have a single world government.

If you hadn't noticed, the human nature is to control and dominate, to a degree that is advantageous to the dominator, and doesn't kill off or cause an exodus of the dominated.

Every time people get rid of a government, some assholes go make a government. Why the fuck else would we have SO MANY FUCKING GOVERNMENTS ON JUST ABOUT EVERY SQUARE INCH OF THE PLANET? They're always getting toppled, but they don't stay that way.

With these understandings, it is best to create a government that can be limited and that serves the people, because no government swiftly turns into a very bad government.

 

Please do tell me how you're going to live the life you want without money. I'm sure being attached to the same plot of land for your entire life is in fact a very free existence. Money is control, but it's your control. Look around your room, do you have anything of any aesthetic value, things that serve no purpose at all but to please, objects, posters, CDs, vinyls, books, pictures, well thank money!

 

Computers.....

I suppose I can mention, that deciding that everyone will get along by barter and live in a primitive way that they do not want to, and be subject to extortion and robbery and violence by others with no protection, and all that jazz, OR deciding that NOBODY will break YOUR strict rules of behavior and mess up your utopia, eleminating the need for government..... Well, you seem to have just declared yourself a government, of a rather fascist type. Isn't that about what pol pot decided?

 

Material things are just luxury, yes i enjoy being able to log onto a computer and do anything but that's the point, we are missing the valuable beauty in life. We can be rich and happy without money and government. People keep putting their trust in these governments, yet we always get screwed in the end. Money is irrelevant to life. We think we need it, we are born into slavery, whether it be physical or physiological, we are all slaves to money, to people in power, we have no freedom.

Without money then there would be no need for war, no need for most crimes, if something has no monitary value then its not worth stealing or killing for is it? We put prices on the lives of animals and plants, even humans, who are we to say how much another beings life is worth?

Live off the riches of your earth, become truly independant, we dont have to be primates living in caves, we can still have what we have but without numbers over our heads, no rich/poor divides, it creares unnessicary tension, it creates war. Its evil.

 

This debate is proof that people are ignorant. We'll sit around and yap about people trying to make a change, yet in terms of ideology everyone's is most likely flawed or viewed in a negative manner. Such is life.

It really has less to do with control and more to do with equality. Humans as a race are not as unintelligent as we appear, our current systems do not work. Essentially, Anarchist want change for the better, despite the gloomy light shed upon them as if they are cultists they aren't always bad. In any case no matter what opinions you have of such groups, you really shouldn't be downing anyone trying to make a change, unless of course you don't see proof we could be doing better as a race.

 

Yeah, and when they get to college age, they become Libertarians and preach personal responsibility from the campus Starbucks, on daddy's Amex.

 

Being libertarian myself, and a minor student of anarchy, I have to say that it IS all about personal responsibility. What people don't seem to get is that freedom has a responsibility side, if you want freedom, especially the kind you can have with anarchy (not the bomb and riots kind, the gentle change kind) you have to be responsible for yourself and with the people around you. Meaning that you have to be able to get along with others, which is possible if you are not a selfish bastard and want everything you see.
People who need main stream politics and main stream religion are unable to think for themselves, and have to have someone tell them what to do, and where to go. True communism is similar to anarchy, it requires responsibility and the ability to be fair to everyone around you. Most people think communism is some welfare sort of state, which is not true. It is simply people working together, responsibly, so that they can all live comfortably. It is not the Russian or Chinese style of communism, where a ruling "elite" dictates how every little thing will be done, or else.
Some of us, instead of turning on, and tuning out, pay attention to what is going on, educate ourselves so that we are mostly independent, and know that we have to work with other people in order to thrive.
A communal situation is better economically because you can have one tractor, one truck, or one any other major tool you can think of being shared and maintained by many people who use it, instead of the redneck mentality way of doing things like everyone having to have their own version of huge, loud, powerful, eye candy piece of mo'fo freaking best damn truck around. You also share labor, meaning you don't have to work your ass to the bone just to exist.
So, being a little of an anarchist type myself, I have to disagree with people who think anarchism is some sort of mental problem. It is just another way of thinking that involves being more responsible, and able to make agreements with others and sticking to them.
By the way, I think Starbucks has lousy coffee, so do not patrionize any of their stores, and my daddy never had an amex card, was seldom around, and would not have imparted very good advice had he been, his having been one of the "turned on, tuned out" types, more concerned with his enjoyments than his responsibilities. I learned about politics, especially what I have come to believe in, by study. Anyone who thinks US or other main stream politics is the way to go is mentally deficient.

 

Still Kicking thanks, it sums up pretty well the way I feel about my movement.

To me, anarchy goes hand in hand with peace because without a government you need to be able to govern yourself. It's important to have common sense, fairness and respect of others (maturity helps too) for this kind of political system to be successful. I used to live in an anarchist commune for quite some time and it was one of the most efficiently organized and positive environments I ever seen. It was possible there to live in plenty for a handful of peanuts (litterally), in a calm and respectful ambiance despites the absence of clearly defined social structures, elite, government, police, or whatever.

I realized that people don't want trouble (for the most), they want to live in peace so it wouldn't turn into chaos and warfare if all forms of authority would suddently disappear. There would be a chaotic period though while people adjust to the new way of doing things, but it would only last a moment. Sure I know this is only speculation, not the point of this thread, but I truly believe it could be possible for this to work on a large scale.

 

Cheers Bassline.

 

There is a difference between lawlessness and lack of central government. Most anarchists believe that certain laws are necessary and will need to be enforced and had in mind highly organized forms of society.

 

Anarcho-capitalism principal before party.

 

The persecutions on humanity has had different pretexts in the past. Yet as the human race grows with time and the mass hysteria of a young species subsides, we can see that the remnant of an age of suffering still has it's grip on humanity. The same documentation that can reveal to us the atrocities of the past, can also show us that what has never worked is still the dominant ideaology ruling the world today. This will cause a forseeable upheaval that will repeat itself until the end of time.
The only way this endless war can be avoided is by resisting the act of control. The only way you can dominate men as to do things against their
will is by force or subterfuge. To believe that an entire race can be controlled by a few men is folly. To turn man against himself, to enslave him, will escalate into a fatal clash in a not so distant future. To say that society is engineered by some, while all are subjected to it's tyranny, is a powerful realization. The power of a man should be within the reach of his arms, and inside the range in which we can hear his voice. The fate of his enemy should if necessary, be decided within the radius of his weapon. To exercise power through the words that are written on legislation is cowardly. Men are forced into a monetary system that grants power over them. By those who have mastered the art of dominance through it's medium. A monetary system in which there is no escape is the cause for sporadic violence amongst citizens. People with seemingly no motives, who are utterly disgusted by the trap they are in. One that will never let them live in peace, one that will never let them choose. As they become socialized they realize that their conditioning is conducted through an almost invisible force. Paperwork and bureaucrats, politicians and presidents that they will never see, hear or talk to through their entire lifetime. Yet they are imprisoned by the writings of old, as the order is in a constant state of renewal and strengthening. This order has to bring citizens down by all means, to keep itself afloat. An entire population supressed financially, in a world where money is everything. They impede financial gain knowing that the only thing that could beat them is a wealthier opposition. Forbidding people to assemble with their own kind to find other means to live has been successful so far. The monetary system is the worldwide game that must be played. There is no turning back, and death is the only end in sight. Money is a formidable pretext for persecutions on humanity, yet by far the worst one. It is simply the medium in which men can enforce their means, act recklessly, and make man's worst enemy it's own race. Insanity is the act and money is the means, domination is the goal and violent death is the outcome. Hereby goes the circle of modern life.

Void of spiritual attachment to our own kind, filled with the desire to lead while unable to follow. The problem is what government aspires to, the abolition of the natural order put in place by the universe. The order which created human nature, and gave meaning and purpose to all personality traits thereof. Where as men nowadays try to dominate by telling the socialized population that they are present to defend them against dark forces at work. They ultimately destroy the very people they mean to
defend, for the dark forces are in all of us. We walk and crawl the earth's surface with animality as our nature. In the bigger picture, all things grow
around us in hopes of being perceived and loved. As we hope to be touched by the intelligence behind the design. A good design, when it is accepted by the world. A world that was taught that between light and dark, light is to be praised while dark is cast out. The whole design is that which gives life to human intellect, where a higher purpose can be found. Rejecting parts of existence has the effect of a man that thinks to be a tree. Ignoring sexual impulses, not defending each other from dogma, giving up our very nature to empower those deceiving us. These are the symptoms of denial. So much death caused by a collective rejection of reality. Here are where these powers that be came into existence with the pretext of defending us against ourselves. Enforcement agencies harnessed the power of evil and
limited it to their organization while trying to cast it out from the world. If only the world would accept our dark nature and learn how to use it.
Man has many enemies be it psychological, physical or institutional. We are meant to create, and we are meant to destroy and annihalate. A dance which consists of feeding on what is good for us and fighting off what would cause us harm. This natural process consists of our biological war against the elements, and most importantly our sovereign entity trying to ward against beings that would seek to destroy us. Survival is human nature and it is not always a pretty thing, yet my survival should depend on my own sovereign mind. My entity should not be governed by the police when it comes to defending myself, nor should it be governed by politics when it comes to expressing myself. My entity should not have to justify or testify in front of a court of law, when the court of law is part of the institutions that are doing the very things that are prohibited by their enforcement. To say that one man can do on a daily basis what another would be persecuted for is injustice. All these emblems of power, this currency of power, and symbolism granting power, have acquired undisputable authority through the people promoting them as icons. Understanding how the fear of men could be used against them, so that power could be given to these institutions who state to be the solution to human nature. They give themselves the authority to conduct the very actions they seek to condemn. A police officer for example is seen as the savior against mass murderers and rapists. Yet today they almost exclusively do the killing for they are armed and trained to kill. Today they exercise strip searches on a daily basis because their emblem of power grants them the right to become the monster they are supposed to be fighting. These institutions should be abolished so that every man can be freed from the dominant lifestyles these corporations enforce unto them. The world must have place for the communities that would form in such a scenario, to put an end to the dark ages. Which was the rejection of human nature, and the downplay of man's spiritual glory by those who claimed to be saviors. The followers of the church and assertive operators worldwide should cease limitations cast upon the world under the clever guise of god.

 

This is why anarchy is needed. So that every man can find his station on earth while enforcing his own ideaology. Finally enabling an accurate projection of what a man is, without limitations or hypocricy.

 

Strong central authority has been the greatest force in reducing violence, reducing disparity, and protecting minorities that the world has ever known.

Violence, subjugation, and exploitation of the weak and of minorities tend to occur where valuables cannot be safeguarded (for example can't be kept in a bank), where there is a huge disparity between successful and unsuccessful people (for example where a successful male dominates the reproductive capacities of several women and a unsuccessful male is left with no mates at all), and where there is no means for third party adjudication (for example when I cannot call the police when you have raped my sister, so instead I kill you, then your relatives kill me, then my relatives kill your relatives ad infinitum), and where life expectancy is short (for example when you have no access to health care and are at risk of dying from simple infections).

These conditions exist in the most weakly governed societies that we know of (hunter gatherers, simple horticulturalists). And it is precisely in these societies that we find the highest rates of murder, rape, theft, and subjugation and exploitation of those that have lower abilities to resist the transgressions of others (minorities and women typically). The murder rates in downtown Detroit are absolutely pale in comparison with the murder rates among the Yanomamo of the Amazon or even the !Kung San (renowned among neighbors as being a peaceful tribe!).

These conditions also predict violence within societies that do have strong central authorities. In neighborhoods where people feel that they cannot count on police (physically remote communities or inner cities where "trust" in the police is lacking), or where people cannot protect their wealth (low income areas where a person's wealth may be tied up in immediate possessions or even commodities like drugs (inner cities again) are where we expect and find the most violence. But again even the most violent neighborhoods in the United States are vastly more peaceful than the most peaceful non-centralized societies.

I am not arguing that these non-centralized societies are examples of anarchism in practice but I think they do demonstrate the point that as the force of central control loosens on people they tend to default towards the dark side of human nature (murder, rape, theft, subjugation and exploitation).