Would Christ approve of Christian hate?

Talking about IGNORANCE. I recall when Aids first show up here in America, and if you do your homework you will discover it was first called the Gay mans desiease.
And that was because at first, it was Gay men that were infected with it. This has nothing to do with BIGOTS, but the truth of the matter. It was the Gay lifestyle and their multiple partners that allowed the virus to spread so quickly. The fact that it came from Africa, has little to do with the fact that it was first spread by Gay men. And as far as being progressive, many have encouraged others to continue in lifestyles, which have costed millions of other innocent people their lives. Yet for some, being politically correct, is far more important then common sense, stating the facts, or protecting the lives of others. Sorry hun, I don't have to educate myself, I was there first hand. And I'm not going to be a historical revisionist and pushing false history. The drug users did infect others with the desiease, but that came much later after the Gays first spread it. And that is a HISTORICAL FACT YOU CAN TAKE TO THE BANK. God does not hate Gay people, but I believe He does not support their lifestyle either. I donot believe God sent this desiease to hurt Gay people. It's been my experience, that everytime you step outside of God's plan, the world as a whole gets into trouble. God knows the dangers that are out there, and that is why He gives us these warning in the Bible. From the beginning God has done everything He can do to protect us, yet when we ignore His clear warnings, we bring these tragic results on ourselves.

 

The Bible in the Old Testament speaks about the value of an unborn childs life, and condems anyone who should kill such. That is the only political agenda I need. And I donot have an earthly preacher, and what I do, is motivated by the Preacher of Preachers, Jesus Christ. The Jews are God's chossen and even though they have turned their back on God, we as Christians are to honor them. And that is why Israel has such strong support from American Christians. And that is why during World War II many Jews were saved because of Christians. And no I am not pretending to care about children this world murders by abortion. My daughter works for a Christian group who are active in preventing abortions. My family have demonstrated against abortion, we have given our money trying to stop them. And we vote for those who will try and stop the slaughter. The only real solution, is to stop the killing. And even that will not stop the price this country will have to pay, for what we have done. AND THAT IS THE TRUTH.

 

another vague and inaccurate interpretation.

The only place where the bible says anything about an unborn child is here;

Ex. 21:22
"When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

Notice the one responsible is not "condemned", he's charged a fine.

Since the penalty for murder is death this is proof that the bible doesn't consider abortion murder.

Next excuse please?

Yet in all time I've been here I've never seen you quote him once.

I know you use the Jesus = God, the bible =God's word, therefore to quote the bible is to quote Jesus formula but you would think if that were true you'd afford at least the same due to the things he's supposed to have spoken directly. I don't see you doing that.

Not changing the subject or anything are you?

More vaguary. Preventing abortions how? Gave money to who? Demonstrating where and for what?

This is what they tell you and what you tell yourself. It's all bullshit.

The only real solution is for you to open your eyes. But then you'd see what you're really doing.

You shouldn't even be allowed to speak that word.

 

read your post again, and please tell me again i was putting words in your mouth. you clearly stated that you would put the Jews above others, and this was why Chrisitain 'right wing' support Israel (way to go foreign policy). which in my honst opinion comes across as not that loving and the reason why hypocracy in the main word used in connection to christianity
peacex

 

Talk about opening ones eyes? The only reason the mans life was not required for killing the child, was because his striking the woman was an accident. And thought it was an accident, he was still requiried to pay a fine. And I guess you forgot to read verse 23. If any mischief should follow. Anothers words, if the man would not pay the fine, his life would be required. THEN THOU SHALT GIVE LIFE FOR LIFE. I guess you missed that part. I have nothing to excuse myself for. I read the whole verse. You only read half the verse, and then tell me whats my excuse? GIVE ME A BREAK.
I quote Christ all the time, so I have no idea what you are even talking about. Do you ever recall me stating that Jesus will say to many that come before Him. Lord, Lord, have we not done many wonderful things in your name, and Jesus will say to them depart from Me, I never knew you. I have stated how Jesus said that wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many there be that go in there at, but narrow is the way that leads to life eternal, and few there be that find it. I quote Christ here all the time, I have know idea how you could even make a statement like that.

All Scripture is given by God, so I don't believe in ignoring any of it. NOR DO I JUST READ HALF OF A VERSE, TO TRY AND SUPPORT AN ARGUEMENT BASED ON A HALF TRUTH.

 

If you ever take the time to read the Bible, you would discover that God gave the Jews the land they now live on. There are those who want tell God we don't care about your gift to the Jews, we are tell you God, the Jews don't get your gift. So God, do you have a problem with that?
God allowed the Jews to return to Israel to give this world a reality check. This world forgot God and His promises long ago, and now the world is telling God the way it's going to be. The reason I support the Jews in Israel is because God gave them the land, and I donot believe in telling God what to do with his land. You either donot know about the prophecy or donot care, but God has a plan and many of us that are living to day I believe will see the power of God demonstrated when many nations try to push the Jews out of Israel. The whole story of what is about to happen is recorded in Ezekiel chapters 37, 38, and 39. And Zec. 12. If someone came to me and told me they wanted to steal your car, I would support you above them, because it is your car. I support the Jews, because it is their land. Given to them by God.
And I support the Arabs as well, but I will not support them, when they try to take what is not theirs.

 

the problem is i do not think you can see the hypocrosy of what you have said, you willl go off again on your prophesy rant, as you do everytime somebody points anything out.

i ahve read the Bible and do understand, but it sounds like you are only wanting to help to self-fulfil the prophesies, why do you care, if they are God driven then you do not have to support anything??? or do you not trust the power of God. My problem with the US supporting of Israel is that it made the conflict huge and cost so many lives. surely it therefore is everybody natives rights to have their initial land- just have not got it written in a book you believe. you are tresspassing on the native americans land, i support the casue to remove you!!!! what is the difference- you are not loving all equally, you are being totally biased and discriminatiory.
peacex

 

I might point out that the native Americans took the land first from the Mound Builders before them, and in either case, there is no written Word stateing that God gave the land to either one of them. Israel is different, in that it is documented in the Bible, that the land of Israel was given to the Jews by God. There is a difference between how they got their land, and how we got our land. God has His plan for Israel and the world, and it doesent matter how politically correct you think God should be. In these last days, God is useing America to help set the stage for His return. Both America, and Israel are key players in this future event. The prophecies of the Bible, and there are many, will all come to pass. Not one of us can prevent what is going to happen, and in the end, all of the evil of this world will be destroyed. God, and the prophecies, have been ignored, but these days are coming to an end. True Christian should be God driven, and Gods greatest tools here on earth, are His people.

 

so therefore God didn't have control when he seperated people over the planet (tower of Babel). so the only initial land that counts is Israel, God doesn't care about other peoples land at all.

yes true christians should be God driven, i fail to see the holy spirit in anything you put on these forums, no offense but the chrisitans i know seem to have the holy spirit and i am proud to say they are my friends, however many on here including you do not seem to posses this spirit.
peacex

 

Indeed. But in light of this, wouldn't this also mean that the white settlers from the Old World displacing these "new" Natives also had no claim to the land they felt entitled to? And shouldn't these allegedly Christian settlers have known better than to apply their spirituality to oppress others, hence, the "Trail of Tears"...?

Just because a particular people claim that G-d told them a particular tract of land was theirs and one of them wrote that down on a piece of paper that later became scripture doesn't exclude the Jewish people from tearing down their ideal of "national Judaism" and turning to an exaggerated Judaism where *ALL PEOPLES* are included as their brothers. Isn't that how it was supposed to be, since G-d chose us to be the bearer of the Savior to the whole human race...?

This suggests that G-d is in direct control of the government in Israel, and not people. If this is the case, the G-d you reference does *NOT* desire to have all men saved, and is indeed a "respecter of persons", as the Palestinians live as second class citizens. How in the world should they ever come to accept Christ as the Prince of Peace when Christ's People portray such hateful, unG-dly attitudes towards them...?

(Vice versa, of course, but as the ones with the Truth, you would think we could rise above this foolishness, and attempt to make some sort of attempt to set our differences aside. Remember: I *am* a Jew, but I believe my people have taken our ethnicity to mean more than the blessing that G-d would be revealed through our race.)

P.S. - If it is solely *OUR* land that G-d Himself has given to us, why is it that my people live in Diaspora? Could it be that we have been stingy with our G-d Given Gifts of land and home?

Sir, this has been said before, but prophecy is a poor way to attempt to win souls..... Prophecies don't matter to souls that are not yet won. I wish you could understand that prophecy is a faith-builder for those who already believe, not a tool you can utilize to force others to see things your way.

 

God has incourage the people of earth to populate all the land of the earth, yet God used the Jews for His special purposes. And that is why we have the Old Testament Scriptures today, because it was the Jews that wrote down God's Words, and His prophecies. God cares about all people, yet most of this world cares little for Gods truth. Don't you think it's a little strange, that the Arab nations control most of the worlds supply of oil, and massive amounts of land, and the Jews have this small parcel, and the Arabs don't even want them to have that. The Bible tells us, that in the latter days the whole worlds attention will be directed over who will control Jerusalem. Not that many years ago if you had told someone, that the world would be fighting over the control of Jerusalem, many would of thought you were crazy. Yet, then again, many people as today did not pay attention to the Bible. Ministers in the 1600s and in the 1800s would tell their congergations that the Jews will return to their land shortly before Christ would return. These Ministers Knew their Bible, and they believed the prophecies. If you fail to see the Holy Spirit in anything I have put on this forum, it is simply because you donot believe in the prophecies of the Scriptures. Yet for the Christians, we see the Power of God at work.

 

The trail of tears was not the result of true Christian faith. True Christian faith was demonstrated by Jim Eliot in Ecudor when Yacca Indians killed him, and the other four missionaries that were with him back in the 50s. Even though the missionaries had guns, they refused to shoot the Yaccs's, because as the other Christians stated, they were there to share the love of Christ, and not to kill. The Yacca's speared all five missionaries, after that the wives of the five missionaries went into the Jungle, and they told the Indians they needed Jesus Christ. Today, the Yacca's are Christians, and the leader of the tribe, who was also the one that killed Jim Eliot, is a minister of the Gospel, and a Born Again Christian.

If it were not for the prophecies of the Old Testament, we would not even know who Jesus Christ is. Prophecy is the back bone of the Bible. And if you are a non Christian that is seeking the truth, you will find it in the fulfilled prophecies. I myself came to understand the power of the Bible, through it's prophecies.

God is going to use Israel to reveal to the world who He is, and the Jews don't even know it, but they will. Read Ezk. chapters 37,38, and 39. Also Zak. chapter 12. These prophecies are not fairy tales, they are speaking the truth of what will be. There are many more of them in Scripture, and they speak of America, Europe, Russia, China, ect. The God of the Old Testament, the same one that split the sea, and flooded the world, will do wonders in the earth in the years that lay ahead of us.
The Jews are not back in Israel by accident, but their return is a part of God's end time plan. The Bible tells us that before Christ returns, perlious times will come upon the earth. You need to begin to understand God's plan, and distance yourself from a purly world view that embraces political correctness only. If you ignore the prophecies of the Bible as the world has, you will continue to look at the world only from a human perspective which is void of Gods eternal truth.

 

Then why does it go on to say if the woman dies as a result, the man is guilty of murder and should be put to death?

It's the same act and the same incident with two different penalties depending on whether the mother dies or just the fetus.

In other words if the mother dies, it's murder. If the fetus dies, it isn't. that's the bible's opinion, not mine.

That's not what it says at all;

Ex 21:22-23;

22: If two men quarrel and strike a woman with child so that she miscarries, and yet no mischeif follow; he shall surely pay a fine such as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23: But if any mischeif follow, then you shall give life for life.

there are debates as to what "mischeif" is supposed to mean--some point to the fact that "miscarries" implies the death of the fetus and not the mother and that "mischeif" means the mother dies as a result.

Others contend that "mischeif" means the death of either.

you could make a case for either interpretation but either way it couldn't possibly mean what you say it means.

The line "if no mischief follows" appears as a prerequisite for the imposition of a fine, not as a way of saying the fine wasn't payed, so your interpretation makes no sense at all.

You should stop guessing, you don't seem to be very good at it.

I read the whole verse several times in several versions, I always do, which is why I catch you making shit up more often than not.

Allright. I'll admit I haven't read all your posts. In the one's I have read, actual gospel quotes seem lacking, and I've seen you make references to things out of the OT and attribute them to Jesus.
But considerring I can't deny you the "Jesus=God so God's word= Jesus words" defence I'll give you this one.

I'm constantly seeing you take passages out of context, saying "the bible says" and not telling where it says it, or applying the most rediculous interpretations of select passages in order to make your point.

I think ignoring it would be a lesser crime.

Sometimes you don't even do that much. sometimes you make up shit off the top of your head and end it with "the bible says" or "jesus said".

I guess you're relying on the probability that most of the people in here would know even less about what's in the bible than you do.

Well, I've only been studying the bible for like 9 months now and I can already see you're full of bs.

You can make all the lying assumptions about me you want to. I prefer to show your dishonesty.

 

Please give me a chapter and verse where it tells you if the woman dies the man in question is then guilty of murder. I did not see anything from 23 on in that chapter that even suggests that.
And in verse 22, it tells you that the woman has already lost her child, AND IF HER FRUIT DEPARTS. THEN the man will be punished, and that punishment will be determined by her husband, and the judges. This punishment does not result in the death of the offender. For in the next verse which is verse 23. it states, that if any mischief would follow, another words the man does not live up to the terms of the punishment, which was determined by the judges. THEN his life would be required. There is no guessing here, it's really pretty simple as to what is being stated.
23. And if any mischief follow THEN thou shalt give life for life.

 

It (ex 21:23) says "But if any mischeif follows, then you shall give life for life"
this implies that somebody died. Since, as you go on to point out, the fetus is already dead, then who else's death could they be talking about except the mothers?

Ex 21:22;
If two men quarrel and strike a woman with child so that she miscarries, and yet no mischeif follow; he shall surely pay a fine such as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

Again, the no misceif follows part is the determining factor as to whether the offender will be able to get off by paying a fine.
It couldn't possibly by referring to a failure to pay that fine.

Which makes more sense?;

"If noone dies, then he (the offender) shall surely pay a fine..."

or (as you're reading it);

"if the man doesn't fail to pay his fine, then he shall surely pay a fine...".

 

If any mischeif follows does not imply that the woman was murdered, its speaking of the person not living up to the judges decision. The seriousness of the womans loss is what is at issue here, and at no point does the text even suggest that the offender killed the woman. The text clearly states he must pay for the death of the child. Then the judges determine what that fine or punishment should be. It is after they reach their determined punishment, if any folly should follow, THEN and only THEN would his life be required. Another words, if he tries to worm out of their judgement. Because it is a life for a life, that is a reference to the lost child. And scripture only speaks of the child as the one being lost.

 

Not even close. Sorry, I've already shown you how your interpretation doesn't work.
Simply ignoring what I said and restating your original argument doesn't mean much.

 

Ok, according to you mischief means murder, yet the American Heritage dictionary states that mischief is a behavior that causes discomfiture or annoyance. It is an inclination or tendency to play pranks or cause embarrassment. It causes minor trouble or disturbance. And some how you believe that word imbraces murder. I DON"T THINK SO. And that is why the Bible states that if no mischief should follow, a fine should be paid. The Bible states if ANY MISCHIEF should follow.
HOW DO YOU GET MURDER, FROM ANY MISCHEIF?
Any MISCHIEF coud mean any number of things the offender would attemp to do in order to get out of paying or living up to the judges decesion. The very word MISCHIEF, does not even lend itself to murder, your attempt to do this, does not fit the grammer or the intent. Your interpretation requires ignoring simple words and phrases, and it requires one to making unfounded assumptions. It requires a belief that the phrase ANY MISCHIEF, can only lend itself to murder, which begs the question. Why would the Bible put the word ANY, if it can only mean murder? And if it were murder, why would the Bible not simply state murder? This is not interpretation, this is Just ignoring the written Word. The statement, a life for a life, is speaking of the child that was lost. Your attempt to state other wise speaks volumes to the extent you will go to ignore what is clearly stated. ANY MISCHIEF, can only mean murder? WOW.