Worst General

Discussion in 'History' started by dirtydog, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. ChronicTom

    ChronicTom Banned

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    And yet you just did the same thing to every country and every life that was sacrificed by any other country other then the brits, chinese and russians...
     
  2. dirtydog

    dirtydog Banned

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  3. ChronicTom

    ChronicTom Banned

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    What was I being unclear about?

    I was pointing out that azog's post about the way American's have this whole 'We saved your asses' attitude, does the same thing when it names three other countries as an example that others were involved on the allied side instead of the 51 countries that were.

    Millions upon millions of people from all over the world went there and gave their lives to save their asses..

    Not just from a couple of countries...
     
  4. AT98BooBoo

    AT98BooBoo Senior Member

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    Does anyone know if they used Bio Diesel? I know Rudolph Diesel's original engine used peanut oil so I was a bit curious.
     
  5. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Very few readers are going to understand this one unless you tell us who/what/where/when/why. Even fewer are going to bother to research it to try and figure it out.

    Good point, I wasn't at a PC when I posted that (phone). Good for short comments but... anyways, I'm not a military general buff, or really even qualified to jump into the conversation as an active participant. But I've read a bit about this battle, and the underestimation St. Clair had for the capabilities of the native people.

    In terms of disproportional casualties, I think it still remains as the US military's largest defeat of all time. Most serving in this battle had been drafted into the military and were not volunteers.

    Wikipedia (emphasis MINE):
    "St. Clair's Defeat, also known as Saint Clair's Massacre or the Battle of the Wabash or Battle of Wabash River, was fought on November 4, 1791, in the Northwest Territory between the United States and the Western Confederacy of American Indians, as part of the Northwest Indian War. It was a major Native American victory, and is the greatest defeat of the United States Army inflicted by Native Americans in history...

    ...The battle was the most severe defeat ever suffered by the United States at the hands of American Indians; indeed, in proportional terms of losses to strength, it was the worst defeat that United States forces have ever suffered in battle... Of the 1,000 troops that St. Clair led into battle, only 48 escaped unharmed...

    ...The American casualty rate, among the soldiers, was 97.4 percent, including 632 of 920 killed (69%), and 264 wounded. Nearly all of the 200 camp followers were slaughtered, for a total of 832 Americans killed. Approximately one-quarter of the entire U.S. Army had been wiped out....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Wabash
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_St._Clair
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Turtle

    President Washington forced St. Clair's resignation. Revenge against the tribes was had a few years later by Gen. Mad Anthony Wayne, and in 1795 that particular "indian war" was ended by treaty.

    I'd been aware of the Harmar - St. Clair - Wayne campaigns since childhood, but the magnitude of St. Clair's loss didn't really strike me until very recently, while reading a bio about Tecumseh, and I happened to see this topic come up.

     
  6. ChronicTom

    ChronicTom Banned

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    What am I missing here? The entire US army only had 3300 people in it then?
     
  7. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    The numbers I found seem to corroborate that... In 1789, total US Forces consisted of 718 soldiers. Records are apparently missing until 1794, with 5,669 troops total (that's counting 1,856 in the Navy). With such a loss in a between year, "about a fourth of the army" is about right. Amazing to be talking such low numbers, though, huh? And that was a large army on the native side as well, but one historian I believe argued that only 19 "indians" were actually killed. The numbers for military troop strength were according to the Army...

    http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/M01/fy95/SMS211R.HTM
     
  8. ChronicTom

    ChronicTom Banned

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    That really blows me away... lol
     
  9. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Yeah I thought it an interesting one to toss into the mix, as long as we're going outside the listed ones anyway (no disrespect to the originator of the thread!). I can easily imagine my father answering that question too, he was in the infantry in WW2, I think his unit had more combat days than any other from the US for that war and I think I know exactly how he'd answer it. "The worst general is the no good son of a bitch you're serving under." I can't speak for my long departed father, but I'm really sure that's the kind of thing he'd say. Then he'd make a joke about it.
     
  10. dirtydog

    dirtydog Banned

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  11. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    The Hardin/Hamar and St. Clair defeats came as news to me. I was aware of the Forty Fort defeat in 1788, which was followed by Gen. Sullivan's successful campaign against the Iroquois. It seems that the Indians were doing things Mexican style -- no prisoners.

    I saw in the news that a group of researchers from Ball U are hoping to do a survey of the battlefield area where St. Clair's army (mostly conscripts, I read somewhere) met their defeat.

    http://ohio-archaeology.blogspot.com/2010/01/proposed-work-at-fort-recovery-may.html

    Anyways, I'm no military historian at all, but that one is very often forgotten and I wanted to toss it into the mix.

    Now I need to read more on the Harmar campaign...
     
  12. dirtydog

    dirtydog Banned

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  13. LeeLooD

    LeeLooD Member

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    Son of a bitch... Manuel Antonio Noriega

    [​IMG]
     
  14. bubbler211

    bubbler211 Member

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    i havent seen any postws about william westmoreland who was in charge of the Vietnam war,he really messed up a lot of peoples lives when he decided to go for their hearts of the vietnamese population,he but its just my honest opinion
     
  15. Razorofoccam

    Razorofoccam Banned

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    Montgomery
    He was apiece of shit worthy based in his command,, of a bullet.

    Men died to make his career
     
  16. WanderingturnupII

    WanderingturnupII Grouchy Old Fart

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    I don't know if I'd put him on a list of worst generals of all time, but one of the worst of the American Civil War was Earl van Dorn, CSA, noted for his defeats at Pea Ridge AR, and Corinth MS in 1862, and murder by a jealous husband in '63.
     
  17. Razorofoccam

    Razorofoccam Banned

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    Hey ... greets..
    Name pls i dont want to call you turnip...lol

    I Have played all of HPS simulations of Civ war.. StoneWall to Gettysberg.. and i won at Gettys as rebs,,, lol..
    Have read much of this period... Van dorn sorta rings a bell [Corinth is sim i have played].. i will have to look him up. womaniser?
    These things in life change history.
    Himmler hated people.. look what that made.
     
  18. autophobe2e

    autophobe2e Senior Member

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    major General Elphinstone in the first Anglo-Afghan war.

    he was utterly incompetent and had NO understanding of the capabilities and loyalties of the tribesman he was dealing with, or the nature of the terrain. had to retreat the garrison at Kabul (around 5000 soldiers and 12,000 civilians). about 400 miles through hostile territory after realising that his position had become impossible to defend after they stopped paying money to certain warlords.

    there were only eight survivors of which seven were taken as prisoners.
     
  19. BeachBall

    BeachBall Nosey old moo

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    I nominate Felix Zollicoffer

    Last words "We must be very careful, colonel, not to fire on our own men"

    Only, the colonel realised before he did that his regiment were not Felix Zollicoffer's "own men" LOL
     
  20. Amontillado

    Amontillado Member extraordinaire HipForums Supporter

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    General John Sedgwick, 1813-1864. Famous last words: "Take cover? I'm ashamed of you! They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."

    He was the highest-ranking Union officer killed in the U.S. Civil War.
     

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