World War III?

But this is a WW3 post and America is definatley going to be in WW3 so its good... Instead of America Attacks.... it will be Attack on America

 

Soulless||Chaos,

"so babylon is america..? ok then, what personal sea do we have..?"

(Jeremiah 51:36) Babylon has her own sea. Again, this could not be a reference to ancient Babylon, because the city was built in the desert. America has her own sea. Within the continental United States there is a sea we call Lake Michigan. Lake Michigan is 110 miles wide, and 300 miles long. If you ask anyone serving in the coast guard, they will tell you that Lake Michigan is truly an inland sea. Many ocean vessels lay at the bottom of Lake Michigan, and many surviving crew members now know how deceptive the name Lake Michigan is.

"the fuck is a mountain of war..?"

(Jeremiah 51:25) Babylon has a destroying mountain. America has a destroying mountain. Just outside of Colorado Springs is a place called the Cheyenne Mountain Complex. Deep below a granite mountain is America's command, control, communication, and intelligence center. This place is where America coordinates and controls the North American Aerospace Defense Command. This complex was built for use in case of nuclear war.


"not to mention that would take alot of nukes at the same time to destroy all our cities at once... whatever, dumbass"

-Yes it would

 

Man, I knew christians were ignorant, but damn, this is getting way out of hand. Why dont you take your book and shove it up your ass. That sounds like a good place for it.

 

If it bothers you, don't read the thread. Simple enough solution. But I'm in the middle of something, here, and I have on intention of just stopping. I offered to take this debate to the Philosophy and Religion forums, but JesusDiedForU invited me to this thread instead. Perhaps campbell34 and son have some aversion to the Philosophy and Religion forums, I don't know, but I'll continue this dialogue there, if they'll agree to take it there. It's my guess that they wont, which means I'm stuck posting this stuff here.

 

Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Revelation 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen (were) two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Revelation 8:8,9 The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, 9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
Revelation 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Revelation 13:13 He performs great signs, even making fire come down out of the sky to the earth in the sight of people.
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

That is true, prophecies outside of the bible often fail. Prophecies from God are always 100% true and always come to pass. That's why the bible never fails.

 

cambell34,
Isolating the verses you have given me out of context with the rest of the book is difficult. I have to construct an entire historical outline (preterist is actually the correct term - historical is yet another interperetation, which isn't relevant to our discussion) of the whole book. I'll have it ready in a day or so. A lot of work to go through for something you should have already been aware of, if you had studied a bit harder, but I'll do it, and get back to you.

 

well jesus freaks, since we're all going to die anyways sometime soon.

why are you still here?
shouldnt you be out enjoying whats left of your "life"?
or why not just suicide?

im really interested in your answer. since doom is so definitly upon us. riiiiiiiggghht...............now. oh. nope. sorry. soon though. i promise.

 

campbell34

Below is your list of quotes, with my preterist interperetations, as promised. We both know (before you even read them) that you aren't going to be satisfied with these answers - you will ask me to prove more and more. I suggest this isn't the place - you can take this to the Philosophy and Religion forums and I might continue to discuss this with you there. However, I am somewhat disinclined to do so largely because I'm not a Christian. I'm a pagan. While I agree with the preterist interperetation I'm not going to spend a lot of time vigorously defending it. If you want to research it yourself or debate other preterists who are Christians (the vast majority, since it is the longest held interperetation of the Bible) I'll provide links to some of their sites - you can seek them out and let them explain why your interperetation is faulty.

Revelation 8:8 The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood

Symbolically, if the mountain is seen as God's Holy Mountain, its burning is Rome's siege, and being thrown into the sea is it being given to the Gentile world. Literally, the sea turning to blood is a description of the sea of Galilee when the Jews fled into it to escape the Roman armies who then cut them down in the water...filling it with blood and death.

Revelation 8:9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
The waters turned bitter in Israel when the bodies of the dead began to decay (there are not many in Israel). It is symbolically the opposite of Moses' tree thrown into bitter water to make it pure (Exodus 15:25), God has added unto Israel the plagues of Egypt just as He said He would.

Revelation 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen (were) two hundred thousand: and I heard the number of them.


These are the Roman armies encamped along the Euphrates river (as had all of Jerusalem's enemis in the past). Though not a literal number, 200,000,000 shows this to be an overwhelming army. Preterists who view Revelation as concerning only Jerusalem place this at the onset of the invasion. Those who see the rest of the book as concerning the fall of Rome see this as the final push of the invasion that destroyed the city.

Revelation 13:13 He performs great signs, even making fire come down out of the sky to the earth in the sight of people.


This is the cult of the emperor. Emperor worship was required in the first century, and bowing down to a statue of the emperor was used as a test of obedience to the state. As an historic figure, this person could possibly be Roman Procurator for Judea, Gessius Florus. The reference to fire is a look back at past miracles esp. Elijah (2 Kings 1:9-1:14). Simply put, Rome has claimed the possession of miraculous power in all ages, and no fact in history is better established than that she has continually resorted to pretending miracles

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

If applied to the fall of Jerusalem, the number represents the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem who escaped the slaughter in A.D. 70 (the number 144,000 refers to of 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes). If applied to the fall of Rome it is the followers of the 12 apostles (using the same math). Either way, the number is representative of the group of survivors.

Revelation 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.


Jerusalem was being shaken. As there was shaking at Sinai during the giving of the covenant to Israel, now it will be shaken as a result of that covenants dissolution. As in Ezekial's prophecy of Jerusalem's destruction by Babylon in 586 BC, the great city was split into three parts (Ezek 5:1-12). The city was literally divided into three warring factions among the Jews themselves. The hail could be a reference to the catapult stones used to smash the city by the Romans. This is the end for Jerusalem.

Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

This is part of a recap of the fall of the city of Jerusalem, giving details not found in prior announcements. That Jerusalem fell, and that these things happened literally, and that these very things were used before against apostate Jerusalem is a matter of history.

For first hand documentation, look at the Olivet Discourse; the writings of Tacitus; and Josephus - and the preterist sites below can provide you with yet more.

Preterist Sites:
http://ourworld.cs.com/preteristabcs/index.htm?f=fs
http://www.strato.net/~dagreen/questionsandanswers.html
http://www.preteristarchive.com/
http://www.preteristarchive.bravepages.com/index.htm

Or if you are interested in serious discussion/debate of the topic:
http://www.christianforums.com.au/index.php
At this site do a foum wide search of the word "preterist" and you will find many, many people to discuss this with.

 

Wow, this threat certainly changed topics...lol

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

Have you people not seen the "new thread" button? Go to the first page and look at the origional topic. Damn I thought my ADD was bad.

 

Well Know1nozme thanks for your response, I have a better idea where you are coming from now. Let me try to look at this from my perspective.
Revelation 8:8 you say speaks of the Sea of Galilee when the Jews fled into it trying to escape the Roman armies. The Romans cut them down in the water filling it with blood. In reading Revelation 8, I see no verse which mentions Roman armies, or the Sea of Galilee, or Jews being cut down by Romans, not even the name Jerusalem appears in the chapter. I might point out also the book of Revelation is a book about future prophecy. Jerusalem fell in 70 A.D. The book of Revelation was finished in 90 A.D. If John tried to pass this off as a book about future prophecy he would of been call out on it shortly after he had finished writing it. It would be like me telling the world that in 20 years the world trade center will be hit by two airplanes. I'm sure everyone would be impressed with my prophecy.
Revelation 9:16 You stated the 200 million man army was not a literal number, but shows that the army was overwhelming. Well, if you know anything about scripture it never throws out ambiguous numbers. John saw an army from the East of 200 million men which back then was unthinkable. Yet in the day we live in, and as early as 1960 the Chinese bragged that they could raise up an army of 200 million men. They used the very number John saw 2000 years ago. Their are a lot more Chinese today which would make this prophecy even more possible, and they are from the east as John said they would be.
Revelation 13:13 You stated that Emperor worship was required and it was required that people bow to the Emperor"s statue. Whell in Revelation 13:3 it states that the person who was to be worshipped would have a fatal head wound that would be healed. I don"t recall Gessius Florus or any other historical figure from that time having a fatal head wound that was healed.
The calling down of fire from the sky was not described in scripture as a pretend miracle. Revelation 13:14 states that the person in question would have the power to do this. I would also point out that scripture clearly states that the Image to be worshipped was not a statue. Revelation 13:15 stated he gave life to the image so it could both speak, and cause anyone who would not worship it to be killed.
In 70 A.D. Jerusalem fell to the Romans. You stated that the 144,000 was Christians that escaped. This would be impossible. For in 70 A.D. Jerusalems entire population did not exceed 60,000.
Revelation 16:20 you stated Jerusalem was being shaken. At this point i'm not sure you are even reading the text anymore. Revelation 16:18 clearly states that their will be an earthquake greater than anything since men have been on the Earth. It is clearly talking about the greatest earthquake of all time. Your Quote, "Jerusalem was being shaken"

The only way your given scenario could fit the book of Revelation is.

1. You have to ignore what is clearly stated in scripture.
2. You would have to add names an occurances to chapters that scripture would not support.
3. You would have to speak of historical events that don't exist.
4. You would have to believe John wrote a book about future prophecy, when everyone around him knew it was rehashed history.

Just the same thank you for your response.

 

So it is settled... Babylon is America... Hopefully everyone is prepared.

 

No, it isnt. And if it was true, all it is, is a prophesy. Phophets over time have made thousands of predictions. Rarely do they come true. When they come true, its usually by a vague depiction of the situation. If you mold your life around a prophesy, then you gonna live a shitty paranoid life. Live life by priciples not predictions. Isnt that what the bible/and every other religious book known to mankind teaches anyway?

 

The only prophecies that are vague are the one's found outside the bible. I doubt if you will understand this, but the reason 2 billion people are called Christians today is because a man call Jesus Christ fullfilled 300 Old Testament prophecies. And the people you call paranoid have been helping the poor for thousands of years before the world discovered it was politically correct to do so. The prophecies of Christ first comming were here before He came to this world. And now the prophecies of his second coming are just as plain. I hope you donot ignore them.

 

Gimme some direct correlations here. ALL 300!

Are you saying all christians run around paranoid fearing a prophesy coming true? Because im not paranoid, and im Christian. And no they are not plain. (the second coming prophesies.) It can be formed into whatever you want to believe. The bible is to be used as a tool for guidence. Not a tool for telling the future, thats why all the prophesies are metaphors. And why is it that sometimes people say "look it said it in the old testiment and it came true in the new testiment, its gotta be right."

The bible is a book written by man. Man that over time persecuted people by their religion, killed people because of their beliefs (yes some of those people translated the bible.) and took money from their own people saying if they pay this their sins will be forgiven. Now let me reiterate im still christian, I just dont force feed it down peoples throat, and i keep and open mind toward other peoples beliefs.

 

Would you please give this stuff a rest? You have this type of crap posted on just about all the threads here, not just the religion forums.

Not everyone is going to agree with you that your 300 prophecies from the bible are clear and concise. Because to someone that isn't just ready to believe it, they are NOT.

If a prophecy can be interpreted to mean differnt periods of time, or different people, or different areas of the globe than it is vague. All of the prophecies in the bible are an example of this.

If a prophecy from the bible can only rely on the bible to be proven to be fufilled than it is no proof. The book with these prophecies is the same book claiming to have fufilled them....you can believe it if you want, but don't expect everyone to accept it as easily as you did.

Please stop doing this to the threads in the political forums here, keep it in the religous forums.

 

No i'm not saying Christians are running around being paranoid fearing a prophesy is coming true. If they are christians why should they fear. Your the one who brought the word paranoid in to this discussion.
If you have never spent much time reading the bible, I'm sure the prophecies would not make much sense to you.
And if the bible does not state the future, then who is Jesus Christ? And why should 2 billion people follow Him as God? Give me one good reason anyone should believe He is God.
If you think the bible was just a book that was written by man why do you call yourself a Christian?
I see so you don't force it down people's throat. Another words you just let people go to hell. Or do you believe hell is a mepaphor, which would make heaven a mepaphor. Which means the bible is a book about nothing. Which means Jesus spending a third of His ministery warning people to avoid Hell makes Him a liar. And you are a Christian to help promote His lie, but you don't tell anyone. WOW, I can see you really thought your faith out.

 

Sure I will stop, just a soon as people like yourself stop posting your complaints. If you attack what I have stated I have to defend myself. The bible does not only rely on the bible to be proven. There is strong archaeological evidence which people like you ignore. When you study the bible there is no question about the time periods. But then again, you actually have to read the book before you take your cheap shots. The prophecies in the bible have a lot to say about the political landscape in the future. You would be wise not to ignore this book.

 

I didn't say all christians

I have an ass. degree in religion

Jesus was gods son. God is God.

Because I believe christ died for our sins, and the bible is a directional tool used to guide people. I never said the entire bible was not true, I was just stating that a book written by man has faults.

Its all in what you believe. I believe if someone lives a good life, they are entitled in the end to the same benefits christians get. And forcing religion on people usually repells them. I was Diest/agnostic for years because of people always trying to force christianity on me. Show a good example and people will follow. Some famous guy said that, what was his name.... oh yeah Jesus. (not in the same context but very simular.)