Women's rights, or Islam?

Understandable, as its a bait question and that's your fav strategy as well

What's more important to you, portraying a whole religion and its followers as incompatible assholes or constructive dealing with people other than you?

 

Yep I have to agree that 6 is just repeating the same strategy - LOL I do wish his handlers would tell him to stop

This far right commentator actually thinks that as long as rape is illegal women are doing fine?

And rather than being ‘flabbergast’ most worked out she was a disruptive troll trying to push a divisionism agenda.

6 why are starting up more threads when you still haven’t addressed the criticisms of your views in other ones?

It seems to me that you are just a right wing (far right) propagandist who wants to cause problems rather than seek solutions.

 

After reading this, I would say the race card is just what the doctor ordered.

 

Polish vodka will save the whole world eventually

 

There has to be room for both! I realize the thread title is tied to a video that suggests you can't have your cake and eat it too, or something. I think in cases such as these, you should!

I would ask the OP what he thinks should be the case. Both things are important. Why not seek a middle ground?

 

And I totally get that. But most religion is set up benefit the man and leave the woman is something slightly less than human.

They can defend the right to practice any religion; all Americans should, in fact. But it confuses me when they try and defend the values of often-times conservative religions while claiming to be progressive and liberal.

 

Indeed, both western and middle eastern religions. But it seems anti-islam people act like we in the western world have all demanded equality for women for centuries and its thoroughly ingrained in our cultures :-D

Isn't there a broad range of values in any religion? Are they really defending the most deplorable values? And how many people do that anyway? Maybe you took notice of a real libtard. What i mean is: I'm sure those people are out there but maybe they gather more attention than is really needed (and thus may give a distorted view) because they take things to the other extreme (always more sensational and thus more interesting.. at first instance).
Don't become a 6-eyed and base your overall view on progressives or liberals on the couple of most ridicilous liberals you came across of

 

And I have yet to hear a leftist address any criticisms as to why they feel Islam deserves shielding from brutally honest critiquing and evaluation. Especially from one who doesn't believe in the religion at all.

I think L. Southern is right that most women are doing fine when you look at the statistics:

Deaths in battle: Men 97.7% Women 2.3% Homelessness: Men 62% Women 38% Suicides: Men 77.9% Women 22.1% Homicides: Men 77.4% Women 22.6% Workplace deaths: Men 93% Women 7% College graduates: Men 40% Women 60% Winners of custody: Men 17.8% Women 82.2%


Except in Islamist countries where Taharrush is still practiced (it was imported to Europe in 2015), that's where feminism is really needed. Not on American college campuses contrary to popular belief.


Yeah, I like to shake cages but it causes people to look outside their echochambers. No, I'm not a far-right propagandist; just a center-right antagonist with unpopular opinions .

 

I honestly dont pay attention to these things as closely as oh, say ..someone like 6 eyed

But my own personal perspective is framed by the couple of Muslims I know and consider friends

And I will defend their values all day. They share the same values as me. Dont most people? To live a peaceful life with the freedom to pursue your dreams and to love your friends and family. Isn't that what most people want?

I just don't really know who these liberals are who are defending the Islamic values I assume you are speaking of - sharia law, no rights for women, etc? I've just never came across any liberals who defend the more extremist sects of Islam but like I said I don't pay it a lot of attention.

The thing is the religion has really been hijacked in order to push a political agenda. The modern radicalization of Islam is a really complex subject and "feminism or Islam?" Is a gross oversimplification

 

As a classical liberal, I take offense to the word libtard.

Western culture is the best culture in the world at this point in time. Some cultures are better than others. But that doesn't mean we can't learn from other cultures and adopt some of their positive values. Religious cultures like Islam are lagging behind in human progression, but I really like Islamic artwork and calligraphy; the tile mosaics that come from that part of the world are absolutely beautiful. Their classical minaret architecture puts modern western concrete brutalist concrete architecture to shame. They have good music too. So yes, there's some good qualities about every culture. But in terms of individual freedom, the arts, technological innovation, medicine, the west is the best. It provided the blueprint for the ascent of humanity. It welcomes other cultures to join it.

 

Have Islam go through a reformation movement perhaps?

 

I dont know if you're being facetious

But this is it, basically. Parts of the middle east are simply behind western culture...not even THAT far behind, women didn't have any rights here 100 years ago. And religious law was much more ingrained in the fabric of society 100 years ago.

But you also have to take into account some of the most religious regions of the middle east were pretty liberal 50 years ago. In the case of Iraq, even 15 years ago. I know Saddam was a dictator but Iraq was very secular under his rule. And look at Afghanistan, women didnt wear hijab there in the 60s. And they wore shorter skirts that showed their bare legs! They went to college and had careers. The radicalization we're seeing across the middle east isn't necessarily a continuation of how its always been. Some countries were pretty liberal in very recent history and became radicalized as a direct result of destabilization caused by western interference

 

Yes this is true. Iranian women also protested the hijab in 1979 during their revolution. Now, it's part of daily life and a symbol of female empowerment or some shit. In many places they are regressing rather than progressing.

 

Seems you have already made up your mind. So the question is just to reinforce your views. This is the wrong approach to a question from people with different opinions. You have presented it in such a way there is only black and white.

For example I could say "women's rights or Republicans" after all Republicans ogress women, they deny them healthcare, they follow them in malls, they grab them by the pussy. But if I did that I would ignore a majority. I don't expect this to mean anything to you but regardless of politcal views it was just not a smart way to ask.

 

This question is pretty stupid. Women's rights. And if the rebuttal is "yeah, but in the Islamic world women..." it has already been answered. It is possible to have both.

 

If you polled 100 random women people like 6 eye would probably be upset to see how many view his party as a threat to women. Like so many areas Republicanism and Islam are not that different. It's just that one is all for Jesus and the other is all for Mohamed. But both have their members which see men as better able to make life choices for women in the name of god.

You talk about Islam not giving choice. What is abortion, what is birth control? They are two examples of a choice a women is not supposed to have in a Republican world.

 

6

LOL – for fuck sake 6 we have been through all this before in the thread were you tried to defended alt-right views, your arguments didn’t hold up then and they don’t now.

It’s again an expression of your black and white thinking (can you please begin to even try thinking rationally?) – ALL lefties, ALL Muslims – All lefties are bad people therefore they ALL support bad things and ALL Muslims are bad people so they must ALL support bad things.

Oh yes when pulled up on it you bluster about you actually knowing it’s not ALL but it always runs false because you always go on to do it again.

As pointed out to you before I’m an atheist and am critical of religion but that doesn’t mean I have to believe ALL religious people are monsters – I have Christian family members and Muslim friends, I’ve worked with people of many faiths I’ve never hidden my atheism and have had some interesting discussions with many religious people over the years the majority are normal decent people

The thing is you and your ilk are not about honest debate or honest criticism – if you were honest you would be addressing the many, many outstanding criticism of your own views that are littered over many treads in this forum.

No this is not about being honest it is about trying to spread division and hate.

 

6

No you like to promote far right propaganda in the hope of spreading division and hate and then you run away when your ideas don’t stand up to scrutiny and you are unable to defend them from criticism, if anyone is in an echo-chamber it is you.

Then why do you constantly promote far right propaganda and ideas – from your social Darwinist views to your ‘free market’ anarcho-captitalism to your characterisation of anyone to the left of your position as a Stalinist.

You try to hide it by moving around the forum and running away from honest debate to then begin other threads to push out yet another far right tirade but we see you and we know what you are.

 

I think the best thing to do is just ignore this guy. His arguments are shallow strawmen that don’t hold up to any rational independent thought. He suggests he’s making others think but he’s not skilled enough to pull that off. At best he’s a dog whistle

 

^
I noticed in another thread he confuses 'provoking' with 'thought provoking'. There's obviously a subtile difference

Also, he acts like its his unpopular opinions that make him appear as a right wing propagandist but its actually primarily how he argues them. Most regulars here can handle an unpopular opinion, but if the arguments don't hold up, you make too many use of biased rightwing sources to illustrate a supposedly absolute truth, almost always charge and generalize, and of course quote out of context... etc. people will eventually take that into account in the next convo.

 

What is a leftist? Your opinions are "unpopular" because they suck. And there's nothing honest about them--brutal or otherwise.