Women's entitelment and passiveness (waiting for a clear approach from the man)

-- actually hurting them a lot more than helping. (No worries, keeping a positive tone for this one)


Was @ the bar the other night (applebeees ). Sitting minding my own business , finishing a long island iced tea. When an attractive lone lady sits across the other side of the bar.

(she's actually already squirming at the thought I, an attractive young lad, may notice her).



For about 20 minutes we are doing the awkward "trying not to notice each other" thing, eye contact grazing each other but never sticking, then eventually I mentally decide to say 'fuck it' and slowly fix my eyes on her to see how she responds.

She responds. Makes eye contact back. Other times flamboyantly plays with her hair and adjusts herself. I smile back & make a comment about her drink. She smiles and enjoys it.


Just as I am to make a 2nd comment, which would then change it into a conversation, my entire body shuts down and it just stops me.





I finish my drink knowing I could still ask/have her join me for a cigarette, but on my way out,


I am reminded why am I forced to accost a stranger, whom I've only known for brief eye contact, whom knows nothing about me and has made no attempts to do so,

and I am quickly reminded of all the real-life reasons not to bother.


There was another girl last weekend. Offers me a cig after I "cool-y and calmly" ask for one. She even does the whole "ugh..I can't feel my fingers...*smile*" as she walks over (I made her) & hands them slyly over to me.


Could I have rubbed my hands around hers as I grabbed the cig and flirted back? yes.

Did it require me to totally enter creep-zone (there's no stepping back) SIMPLY based on the fact that she's a girl and all she has to do is come over?

yes.



And this is just where I lose all motivation. Do y'all girl realize what your'e expecting out of men? Men creep out of neccessity and survival, especially in high school, but a grand majority of us step outside with manners in mind...

 

yeah, this is pretty well established. also pretty well established that it's not going to change any time soon, so you might as well say fuck manners and start creeping.

did you evacuate your bowels?

 

I think Cherea has been dethrowned

 

I'm very assertive, and I get told to tone it down because it is men that want to take the lead and make the advances.

 

In many people’s minds the sources of sexual attraction--the vaunted 'chemistry,' the elusive ‘electricity’--are shrouded in mystery. Indeed, much remains unknown about why two people are attracted to each other.

Nevertheless, in recent decades science has revealed many secrets about heterosexual attraction. We know for example that women around the world are attracted to symmetrical male bodies and faces, to the physical manifestations of testosterone (a strong chin, broad shoulders, deep voice), and to a man’s social status, intelligence, and sense of humor.

We know that men all over the world are attracted to signals of youth in a female (smooth skin, lush hair, generous lips), to the 'hourglass' figure (a waist to hips ratio of 0.7) and so on.

I prime example of this can be reflected at a social gathering I attended recently. The girl looked my way I look her way, I approached and we proceeded to converse.

We ended up walking out together and I whistled for a cab and when it came near, the License plate said "fresh" and had a dice in the mirror. If anything I could say that this cab was rare. But I thought nah, forget it, yo homes to Bel-air!

 

+1

I've known a few ballsy young women who are confident enough to walk up to a guy and say hello or to say to someone their casually dating 'I like you lets see where this goes' and they say it's rarely reacted to well. Personally I think it's fantastic that some women can be that assertive and even if it's not met with good reception most of the time they should continue being that way because one day someone will respond very well to it.

So it's worth noting that maybe it's not just because of the women that things are the way they are and that men in general have contribute a lot to this as well. Personally I think if she was giving you eye contact an sitting along obviously hoping you would talk to her then she was giving her 50% well enough anyway.

 

In my country it's enough for a girl to just go out on her own, guys would understand it as an invitation, even if you ignore them, which can be really annoying sometimes. So obvious eye contact would be quite a clear sign to show that she is interested, if you ask me. And even though gentlemanly traditions, such as introducing yourself to her first, opening the door for her etc, are unnecessary in these times, it doesn't mean that they aren't appreciated

 

Men that are attracted to me, but aren't the type that naturally use initiative, do respond. Yet, I don't expect that once-encounters will lead to anything. It's just a moment in time.

The OP treats these interactions as make/break, or do/don't, or nice/mean, or pass/fail. In reality, none of them are destined to be THAT significant.

 

I'm very assertive, too. I smile to everybody, approach everybody, dance with everybody... I'm easy, let's say, and I'm lucky enough to live in a place where people don't perceive it as something negative. And 90% of the time I'm talking to a man, I'm sexually aroused and wanna have sex, unless the guy is really unattractive to me. I won't have sex that often, unfortunately, but I wish I could. I wish men would be less complicated and more open. In my fantasy world, I'd have the life I have, but in a STD free universe.

I'm just very curious and a guilt free hedonist.

Now, I didn't understand the OP. I think it's because English isn't my mother tongue. Could anyone explain? I got the story, but I didn't really understand what he's complaining about. I missed the point, and I think it is an English problem. What did he mean he was shut down? What does that mean? And what did he mean about the creep zone thing? I understand the words, but not the meaning. Would anyone, perhaps the OP himself, explain it to me? Thank you in advance!

 

Basically the OP is super awkward and weird when it comes to women, and thinks that the fact that he always goes home alone is due to some inherent flaw in the opposite sex, instead of the fairly obvious (to anyone observing the situation from outside) truth.

 

Hmm.. but how else are two strangers supposed to hook up? How are these interactions not significant? Then what IS significant?

I'm not treating these interactions as pass/fail, but understanding my environment. And you are totally belittling the importance of these interactions -- IT'S HOW PEOPLE MEET 99% of the time. Bigger picture attitudes and behaviors factor in to how these things play out. All these things we sqabble about, including socialy-play and how masses think and judge, are direct proponents into how these things play out.



How am I reading too far into this? As a woman, the girl probably thought she did more than enough and was probably wondering "omg why didn't he come over??" Because she thinks all [confident/worthwhile] men are dogs, like the chase, and this is still the only method that society keeps applying and making room for.

• THIS is what I'm alluding to! Your passive shits only leaves room for THIS KIND OF INTERACTION. And it's shallow and not sexy. I DON'T WANT TO GET TO KNOW YOU YET --- PLEASE SHOW SOME PERSONALITY FIRST.

because for one reason or another women are still not speaking up or taking any leap of faith themselves. They'll play with their hair, perhaps not move seats, but that's it. This isn't over-reading things, these are true patterns.

(And it's those same passive women, who, frankly, now NOTHING about what it is to make sex happen between strangers, turning around and giving you shitty advice too. Telling you that your aggressions are not working because you didn't let the man do it all -- irony at its sad finest.)

She's still a lady who I have NO CLUE whom she is, and all she's done was look BACK at me? I'm the one who started the eye contact (yes, I see you, you see me, okay, let's make that obvious -- now what?). I'M the one who OPENED MY MOUTH and clearly said something to her -- so no, how has she done 50%? 'Cuz she played with her hair? Because she didn't move seats?

Aren't we giving women a little too much credit again? I want to approach a person, not a silent image. If ya feel what I'm saying.

Anything alive, 1 comment even just that, would have helped her case.

 

So because I can't-or-won't approach a girl just 'cuz she's a girl and I'm a man and I question this I'm socially awkward and weird?

Ya, no blow me bro. You are more than welcome to keep feeding the system and not think independently for yourself. You are more than welcome to keep feeding the system where men approach women 20-1+ odds, and women, keep and take all the reward. You are more than welcome to applaud passive behavior on women, which makes your MANDATORY job as the aggressor a lot more harder and a lot less fun.


Meanwhile, sorry, no, I'd rather use my brain.

 

There is a difference between going into an interaction to enjoy the moment, and going into an interaction to have an expectation.

 

So incorrect it hurts.

 

I can relate...I'm a female and I've been described as "intense" by men. This same behavior from a man towards a woman would most likely be described as "assertive." So, there are always exceptions to everything, including OP theory...because women are sometimes the assertive one.

 

Everyone (except maybe a woman who can get sex whenever she pleases ), goes into a moment to gain something. This is truth. Yes it's cooler when it looks like a guy is just in it to be in the moment. :daisy: but that's not what's going on doll.

As the higher up in the sex game being a woman, it's naive and a bit bit insulting to wonder why everyone else isn't just moment oriented -- 'CUZ THEY'RE NOT BEING HIT UP FOR SEX.

?C'mon surely you can see this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

people don't meet/interact in public? the fuck?

 

Ok, I'm going to read this slower. First, what do you want to gain? My guess it is not JUST sex, or the potential for a gf. It is validation.

Yes absolutely, you SHOULD enjoy people just for the sake of enjoyment of a person at that moment. Yes, yes, yes, yes very important. It is attractive, and engaging.

I truly do not think I have more leverage as a woman in the sex game. In fact, my preference is to take that whole element out of these casual encounters. I don't like the responsibility to have this undercurrent of "stuff" to respond to.

Take what is on the surface....it's freeing.

 

Perhaps you are considered awkward or weird because your body shuts down when you want to ask someone out for a cig. I don't think it is that awkward when expectations are high or when someone get's really nervous etc. but I can imagine it is one of the bigger reasons why you are having so much trouble in this department. But yes, not wanting to approach a girl out of principle can become a problem as well. After all you can approach a girl in many different ways.

 

Most only subconsciously I think. That you are perhaps aware of it 100% of the time seems to be a drag, but I am pretty sure a lot of people aren't and are mainly in the moment, having a pleasant interaction.

 

Feeding what system? I'm happily married and I can assure you that there were none of your crazy mind games involved in the courting process. In fact, the two people I know of who seem to think and act as you do are both still single and hopelessly awkward around women.