Will Trump Supporters Listen To The Warnings?

I think 6 is mistaking the support of Muslims for the support of fundamentalist Islam.

I don't defend Islam any more than I defend Christianity but I do defend anyone's right to peacefully worship without being discriminated against just because some people who also practice their religion are assholes.

I think its important to remember Muslims are more likely to be the victims of terrorist attacks than non muslims. Muslims living in Muslim majority countries like Syria, Iraq, afghanistan, Libya, etc deal with terrorist attacks every day, whereas in western countries we deal with one or two every couple of years.

Anyone who wants to live in peace is on the same side here.

 

To answer the question of this thread...
Well I don't think Trump supporters will listen to any warnings, for the simple reason - human nature.
People don't like to admit they were wrong or misled. So they'll stick to emphasizing whatever little achievements Trump actually made (whatever they consider an achievement), and ignore the big issues.

Trump will ban Muslim immigration.
Ummm awesome. Yay. Trump is bae.
Then Trump goes to Saudi Arabia and makes a deal with the Saudis.
All of a sudden Muslims are good enough?
Sucks for Yemen, but who cares.
And KSA is pretty much the biggest ISIS sponsor, but whatevs.
We're making moneeeey.

Trump will focus more on America and limit foreign interventions. Woohoo, Trump is bae.
Then Trump drops the mother of all bombs.
Trump supporters decide they don't mind, because Murica, fuck yeah, we have the best bombs and democracy and freedom. Yee fucking haw.
See, don't be surprised when a terrorist attack happens on US soil.
And you dropped all those bombs, you take the people.


I agree with Merkel (as much as I came to dislike her over the last few years) when she suggested Europe can no longer rely on America.

And just imagine the nerve you have to have in order to announce your country will be withdrawing from the Paris Climate Agreement, when your country is the world's second biggest polluter.
Shameful.

 

Puff

Well that’s great that you understand the rational and reasonable points he is trying to make so can you please explain them because I’m at a loss to know what they are.

 

Puff

But in living memory it was illegal to be a practicing homosexual up to the 1960’s it was a felony punishable by a lengthy term of imprisonment and/or hard labour.

I believe some states still have laws on the book against it, they are not enforced but are still there.

The thing is that discrimination and harassment of gays went on much longer and hate crimes still continue.

 

Puff

Alright its complex issue and I could suggest some reading - but basically US policy regarding the Middle East has been about access to resources and countering communism (sometimes they were separate other times linked)
In general terms there was a progressive movement in the Middle East in the 30’s 40’s 50’s 60’s that was reformist, secular and often leftist in outlook.

These were viewed with suspicion by western powers this included the US which saw ‘communism’ in any left wing movement especially since one of the things these political movements often wanted was more control over such resources as oil which was mainly under the control of western companies.

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In Iran the US helped overthrow of the elected government because it was seen as ‘communist’ for nationalizing its oil industry. The US helped put in and then supported the ‘anti-communist’ Shah.

The Shah supported and abetted by the US, went after ‘left-wing’ influences that disliked the Shah’s rule, but they were less enthusiastic about religious opposition, which when the revolution came took power as the strongest faction.

Even before Soviet Russia invaded Afghanistan, the US had begun to channel arms, money and guidance to religious conservatives against the reformist lefties. They also encouraged their Arab allies to support the ‘resistance’ and the Saudis sent money to set up Wahhabist schools and many Muslims headed the call to fight the infidel. They became the foundation of the Taliban and the ‘al quaeda’ movement.

And of course the fuck up that was the involvement in Iraq led to the rise of ISIS.

 

Puff

Sorry again you really should read a bit of history – it is generally acknowledged that the term terrorism originally referred specifically to state terrorism as practised by the French government during the 1793–1794 Reign of Terror. The French word terrorisme in turn derives from the Latin verb terrere (e, terreo) meaning "to frighten". The Jacobins, coming to power in France in 1792, are said to have initiated the Reign of Terror (French: La Terreur). After the Jacobins lost power, the word "terrorist" became a term of abuse. (wiki)

And as a term of abuse it later came to be used for other types of attacks.

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As to the problems of the Middle East again you would benefit from a little historical background.

(Again as with 6 I can suggest some reading if you wish)

Western meddling in the ME has been the cause of a lot of the problems the carve up after WWI had ignored religious, ethnic, tribal and political makeup of the region and was mainly dictated by British and French commercial interests. This of course stored up problems for the future and continued meddling since then by differing western powers (mainly involving the oil rather than the interests of the natives) explains a lot of what is happening in the region today.

Anyway this thread is about the heeding of warnings – while it was happening people were warning about the possible consequences of western actions in the Middle East warning that were often proved correct.

 

Wake up, your country is at war too

And yes I do think surprise bombings on civilians count as terrorism, even if they are happening during a civil war

When terrorist attacks happen in western countries it is also due to war.

Terrorists in the middle east target schools, weddings, etc. How is that not terrorism

 

I haaate Juncker, but he's right

 

[SIZE=12pt]Puff[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt][/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In what way was it Obama’s goal? The only ones that I heard of hinting at armed rebellion were some tea baggers and militia types, in other words right wing extremists. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt][/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]What the fuck are you talking about? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt][/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The most recent terror attack was in the UK and although the military were offered police forces said they were not needed and still most coppers are going around unarmed. [/SIZE]

 

Puff, I don't really feel like getting into the immigration issue with you.

You either empathise with innocent people trying to escape horrible situations, or you don't

You either trust your country's vetting process (which here in the US is very stringent) or you dont

You either think the very minute risk is worth the opportunity to help your fellow man, or you dont.

There is no point in debating this as we've all made up our minds already.

Europe's situation is not identical to America. People can walk on foot from Syria to Europe, getting to the US is much more difficult and the process is long.

 

This wasn't the subject at hand though. Nice subject change.

Back to our previous conversation

Terrorism and ethnic cleansing are not mutually exclusive

I know your m.o. You think you can define words however you wish and if you say something is or isnt something enough times, it means you're right

Sorry but terrorism has a pretty clearly defined meaning. Bombing weddings, schools, hospitals in order to instill civilian fear for political/ideological purposes very clearly falls under the definition of terrorism. It doesnt matter if it happens in the US or Syria

This is all getting off topic though

Trump supporters havent heeded the warnings yet, guys

 

You can discuss all you want.

 

Is that so, Melania

LOL

Cheers

 

I'm laughing because you're framing again. And deliberately misconstruing words to fit your narrative.

I do actually. You are going into a nitpicking style argument trying to catch me in a "gotcha" moment.

When I mention how Islam run societies still execute homosexuals, you try to catch me by saying "Oh 6, you actually think ALL muslims want to throw homosexuals off buildings?!"
Work on your reading comprehension. I've already pointed out there are outliers in every group. For example not all leftists are pro choice, just as not all rightists are pro life.

Tell me Balbus, what's the present-day occurrence of Christian societies torturing and killing witches? And how does that same number compare to the torturing and killing of homosexuals in Muslim societies? There's this thing called a timeline, and it consists of the past and the present. I'm sure you've heard of it. It's no wonder you dodged my Vatican question.

Christianity has a dirty and fucked up past. But to give it some credit, they've progressed into the modern area where Islam lags behind.

Nope, I just think liberals who defend against the criticism of Islam are fucking stupid. It is the most socially right wing, anti-progressive ideology in widespread existence.

 

Excuse me, but you were the one who changed my "churchy republicans" statement to "churchy christians."

Well it looks like history is repeating itself. The right is warning the left about a regressive ideology the left wants to import in mass quantities and appropriate into the west.

 

I don't mind if Muslims (and every other religion) practice their own religion in a way that doesn't negatively impact the rest of us.

But lets take a look at the statistics of Muslims in the UK:

-1001 out of 1001 Muslims polled in the UK believe homosexuality is unacceptable
-50% of British Muslims surveyed think homosexuality should be outlawed
-23% of British Muslims surveyed want Sharia Law
-39% of that same group believe that a woman should ALWAYS obey her husband
-33% of them believed a man should be allowed more than one wife
-31% of British Muslims believe the 7/7 bombings were justified.

These numbers are too large to be fundamentalist radical islam. These are Balbus' neighbors

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/1123210/muslim-ghettos-in-the-uk-warning-that-a-nation-within-a-nation-is-developing-with-different-values/
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

 

Black Lives Matter, for one. It is a terrorist organization funded by the Soros and promoted by Obama. They are hellbent on bringing back segregation.

We are a few short years away from white-free universities. Racial relations in the US haven't look this bad since the early 60s.

 

Ferguson: This isn't a revolution, it's the same old divide and conquer technique used throughout history