Why would you not breastfeed?

I've seen a lot of attacking in this thread coming from Maggie Sugar.

To be honest, I'm very disappointed in you and expected better.

 

No, I'm not attacking, dear. I'm standing up for what I feel is right.

Why is it OK for people with NO experience or knowlege to do this, but I am supposed to shut up, when people say ridiculous things?

 

:applause:


even a woman who has educated herself with up-to-date information has no idea what it's like until she goes through it herself. But for women who don't have a clue, come spouting off the typical mis-information we've all heard a hundred times over, yeah, we're gonna respond to it. For some of us, breastfeeding (and childbirth, but I am not going to even start in on the c-section topic) is one of the most important things in our lives. For everyone else, they can't possibly understand that and there is no way anyone can explain it to them. It really is *that* important. Not just to me, as Mom, but to my kids who deserve the best I can give them.

 

Nobody said you had to shut up.

But you are acting a bull in a china shop. Nobody discredits your experience here, by making another choice of how they will raise their child/children. Get it?

 

no, I don't get it. Why would anyone have a child and not want the best for that little person?

 

Because what you think is "best" may not be best by another persons definition, nor does it have to be.

For every "fact" there is always a counter "fact"

 

As for 'sob stories' maggie, I was actualy refering to the experience of women in general suffering as a result of other women feeling that they have a say on what goes on with "their" body.

I do find it insulting that you assume I'm a halfwit because I dont have children, that I'm not REALLY entitled to my say because I dont know how it "feels".

Who's to say I wont feel the same way if I do decide to have kids.

I think all yof you mamas are lucky to have had to opportunity to parent how you like, not everyone is as fortunate. What works for you certainly does not work for everybody.

Sure, breastfeeding is beneficial to a babies health, no one refutes that, but sometimes that isnt always possible, say if a woman works with two children plus her baby, unless she can take the child to work, she cxannot breastfeed, and therefore, inbetween doing everything else she has to do, might not have time to spend pumping, on top of warming the milk ect ect.

 

No one said you were a half wit. But, hon, some of your statements are long disproven, long discredited Status Quo stuff, that most of us who have been learning about birthing, mothering and breastfeeding for years or decades know is simply not accurate.

No, you can't know how it FEELS to be a mother, if you are't one. You are entitled to opinon, of course. But, as I said before, it would be as if I went into the S&M or VEggie Forum and started using 20 year old arguments against those people's lives and about things they KNOW that I simply don't and then got upset, because someone proved they know MORE than I do about those things.

About "thier body." ONCE a womyn makes a choice to accept and carry a pregnancy, she then has RESPONSIBILITES that extend beyond her "own body." Most mothers would DIE for their children, not all of them, mind you, some won't even open their shirts to feed them, but MOST mothers would DIE for their children. WHen one makes the CHOICE to become a mother, all that "My Body" stuff irrevokably changes. It simply isn't possible to always please yourself AND always do what is best for an innovent infant. The fact that most people simply do not GET until they are sitting there, about a week after their first baby is born (if they DO get it) and they go "OH MY GOD. This little human is TOTALLY Dependent on me. I had BETTER do the best that I can to the best of my abilty. Or else an other person will suffer, and perhaps die." There are FEW other situations where that realzation comes to one.

THAT is why mamas who care feel so strongly about this issue.

This discussion isn't just academic to us. It isn't just one more thing to argue about. It is no longer about "our bodies" it is about SOMEONE WE MADE. And there is no way I can convey that, no way.

I hope that, if it is what you want, perhaps one day, you will know what I am saying. My guess is, if you choose to have children, you will. But, until then, there are things that are just unable to be conveyed. No, that isn't an attack, it real. I hope one day you are sitting there, with a 3 day old baby on your lap and go, "Shit, those crazy hippies on that message board did know a thing or two."

 

That isnt a reason anymore. Most states have mandatory allowances to let womyn pump, just like smokers are allowed to go out and have a cig.

In this day and age, with the good pumps we have, there is NO reason for a "working mother" to not pump. I have had womyn who worked road construction pump for their babies. One of them worked on an all male crew, in the dead of summer, and would take her pump and battery pack into the litlte porta potty and put in on blue ice for her baby. Beleive me, where there is a will, there is a way.

And NO ONE said that there isn't some mamas who simply can't breastfeed. (I know more than most people that this IS something that happens.) That isn't what this thread is about. It is why would yoou CHOOSE not to.

But the fact that there are a few womyn who had a very bad things happen to their bodies and can't breastfeed does not negate the benefits, nor does it mean that we cannot reitterate those benefits. Two of our most vocal probreast feeding mamas are mamas who couldn't do it on her own. They are not "Offended" by fact. Neither should anyone else.

 

Because they want what is best for their own life and not yours?

 

I don't think Maggie is bullying at all. She's a little bit forceful, but that is only because she is passionate on the issue, educated as well, and feels she needs to educate women about their bodies, and an essential part of that, when the breasts actually develop a physiological use.

She's a bit hard-hitting, and I can see how a sensitive momma would take offense, but if you've been on this forum long enough, you know her well enough to shrug it off.

 

The way this thread was presented seems like it was really just a setting up the non-breast feeders. The title alone puts them on the defensive and the facts are presented with such a high tone of condesention that you're just pissing these folks off instead of getting them to truely take it to heart. Perhaps the people aren't aware thier tone comes off that way, but it does and I'm a person with no personal stake in this argument. As they say about catching flies with sugar....

This thread is no different.

Just some random 2cents from a person that likes to watch patterns in hottopic threads such as these.

 

And, Holly, you know why I am so hard hitting. When REAL reasons that some mamas can't breastfeed are understood, and those mamas are understood, and taken at their word, it only hurts THEM when there are non-reasons, lame excues and disproven lactation arguments others give, for not doing something the mamas who can't breastfeed would love to do.

The less people make excuses the better it will be for mamas who REALLY have a reason not to breastfeed. There would be NO sideglances at bottle feeding mother, if ALL of them were in the minority of mamas who tried hard enough to almost kill themselves, and still had it beyond their grip. Lame excuses for not breastfeeding hurts breastfeeding mothers, it hurts mothers who honestly COULDN'T and it, more than anything else, hurts the babies.

Blessings, Holly. I know you have been through hell. Those with a heart know you and Kirsten and Otter had no other choice.

 

Maggie Sugar,

It's not really your place to blame women for not choosing what is 'best' for their lives when it comes to how they wish to raise their child/children for whatever reasons they so choose to do so.

Blame the fact that women have too much pressure put on them by work and outside forces for their reasons not to breast feed, but do not blame women for making those crucial decisions and sticking by them with confidence.

Stop blaming women who are out in world, trying to be the best mother, the best wife, the best friend, the best at their job, the best at their sport, the best the best the best the best and aren't always the 'best' to fit your personal standards of parenting.

Nobody discredits your experience of what you consider to be the best. Some of us however are fine not being the best at everything - and yes - that includes raising a child whichever method a parent sees fit. Get over it.

 

most states? If you live in the US perhaps. Infact, they are moving here in Australia to abolish a workers "cig breaks" claiming that they are unfair to other workers.

Not having enough hours in the day becuase of work and family commitments is still an 'excuse', maybe not for you who has the luxry of not having to work and still being able to maintain her lifestyle, or the support and flexibility in her job to take the time of to do time consuming things like pump , but the 'fact' is, that isnt the case for everyone.

Of course women have a responsiblity to their children and yes, their body as their own is no longer the way, but that doesnt mean that it's your decision, nor anyone elses for that matter, what she does with it pregnant or not.

If someone told you how you should parent orgive birth, you'd probably tell them to get stuffed, and so you should its your right to do so.

 

my mom is a nurse in post partum here at the hospital and she said pretty much all mamas try to breastfeed there.

 

I hope ya a both feel better.

I'm on the phone with a good mama friend of mine and she just said, "I am not insulting you by telling you that breastfeeding is the Biological Norm. It isn't an insult, it's a fact." Thanks, Emmy. That's all I need to say.

I'm done here.

Maybe someday you'll know. Maybe not.

I have just as much a right to my opinion as any. Sorry if I hit a nerve. THAT is my job.

 

of course you do!!! We all do!!! Maggie, lets hug and make up.

 

while i'm of the opinion that breast is best, i don't think a mom should feel like she almost has to kill herself to feed her baby and feels she is a bad mom if she doesn't. while nutrition is important, making the mom sick and angry and frustrated will most likely hinder her mothering skills and make her a worse mom.
and many many women work, like retro said, and don't have time to pump regularly and can't afford the risk of having leakage all over their work shirts. i don't think feeding a baby formula is going to kill them, obviously many children have survived. and it is a mother's choice how she raises her children. when it gets abusive and neglectful then the cps can take the baby away and hope it goes to a better situation. i don't think formula feeding warrants this.

 

:grouphug:

I am not angry at ANY of you ladies. I LOVE you all.

My ferocity is part of my makeup. I have NOTHING against any of y'all.

Love, Blessings, and heartfelt kisses,

It would be best if I leave this discussion. It'll be OK.

:grouphug: