why volenteer 4 forces

So if one is not in the military they are on the sidelines? And they may not suggest alternatives to violence?
You've probably been asked this before but I'm not going to go searching...are you in the military? and why do you not live in the fabulous United States?

 

nope, Goldmund like the greek "Chrysostom", gold mouthed, my favorite greek theologian and my favorite fictional character in Hesse's Narcissus and Goldmund. I am near Nürnberg/Regensburg in Bavaria. Where is Dortmund?

 

MORE TROLL SHIT! COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC, DERAILING THREAD.

USER BANNED!

That's funny I never linked the name ? Narcissus and Goldmund , very interesting book ...

"I always revered the Creator as perfect, but never the Creation."
A choice piece which I quite liked ...

Donaustauf ?? do you know it ? it's about 10km east of Regensburg.. Fantasticly beautiful area, i lived there for about 6 months a few years back .....

 

Nice, I am near Parsburg on A3. Would love to come to Greece for Easter. Another cool Chrysostom quote: "Hell is paved with priests' skulls" , okay, a lighter one: "Musicke doth withdraw our mindes from earthly cogitations, lifteth up our spirits into heaven, maketh them light and celestial". He is a truley mythical figure for the church.

Sorry posters for going off topic. Where were we? Oh yeah, Green Thumb,

thank you for your posts. there has to be ways other than violence that could at least be explored. Moreover, if you want to promote democracy, you don't do it by waging war. its antithetical. imagine if we poured just a portion of the cash we spend on the military toward projects that promote good will, or placed a top priority on developing non-lethal weaponry.

Oh and soliloquy, let's not forget the error of Athens in the Corithian League!

As for volunteering, the military is a benign institution. It is the politicians, advisors, and those who run it/work it that make the military into an instrument of aggression. Therefore, it behooves Americans who think the military has run amok, to join and change it.

Then again, there are other ways to go about changing the military and making it more accountable and in line with the majority values of America. Isn't it amazing that conservative Christians are sooooo pissed off about abortion and gay rights (mentioned a grand total of like 5 times in the bible), but say nothing politically about poverty (mentioned on almost page) and unjust war?

Okay, I'll shut up now. too much maté.

 

No, I guess that wasn't the best wording. But what non-violent alternatives did you suggest prevent genocide in Rwanda? We took a pacifist approach, and 800,000 people are dead. Milosovic started the worst human rights disaster in Europe since WWII and went on killing for years while we played the diplomatic angle. Hundreds of thousands died. We are doing nothing in Sudan and in Congo right now, and people are getting slaughtered. This is our proud history of pacifist solutions. Looking at how little interest any of these generate, its almost as though if someone dies, and they weren't killed by America, it doesn't matter. Imagine if we had taken pacifist stances in WWII or Korea or Gulf War 1. Imagine if we said we didn't care what China did in Taiwan. Why kind of world would we be in?

No I am not in the military.

I live abroad mostly because I want to see as much of the world as I can. I've lived a lot of different places. The US is great, its just that there are so many other places to see.

 

Pacifism doesn't mean complacency! There are many non-violent means, even interventionist tactics that could be used (I am not just talking about sanctions), it just requires a little more creativity than pulling a trigger.

Look the problem with violence, is that it justifies more violence, and around and around we go...

 

It would be easier to justify military intervention for some of the examples you stated, so that only strengthens an argument for not being in Iraq. There's no way we could address any of these other conflicts while also continuing our presence in Iraq, we are spread thin as it is. When all of these other serious humanitarian matters are present, why did we invade Iraq? I know the answer, but it is just proof that we are doing what is in our best interest without regard to anyone else.

I think violence is rarely if ever necessary. Perhaps it is the easiest action (for the leaders) and requires the least amount of thought, but it is the least moral. There are definitely better ways and great leaders find them.

I just always find it odd that people who are not in the military can be supportive of war. How can someone say "Yes, someone should go over there and kill and get killed, but not me." Someone else, someone else's kid, spouse, parent... It bugs me.

 

I agree, I think that would be wonderful. (I enjoy your posts too btw )

Yes, and I find it hypocritical of Liberals to be for abortion but against war. I am against abortion, against war. Right and wrong seems very obvious to me, but I guess not everyone sees things the same way.

 

I don't believe the US normally acts out of purely humanitarian interests (although not never, e.g. Somalia). I think it is usually a confluence of humanitarian goals and US interests. But better to stop some humanitarian tragedies than none.

Great. But nobody found these better ways in Bosnia or Rwanda, or the Congo, or Sudan. The US is not preventing someone else from going in and solving things peacefully. Hundreds of thousands of people died while the peaceful, diplomatic approach was pursued.

I understand that, but its a volunteer army. And its not like the military and military families are more anti-war than the general population.